Author Topic: Tatiana with Maria pictures  (Read 56170 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2006, 08:25:27 AM »
Yes, that could well be that there are more photos out there that show them together. I hate to make conclusions and the like unless there is firm evidence of what I am saying, and it is reasonable. I don't know if the lack or percieved lack of photos of Tatiana and Marie together, has anything to do with any divide in personality or not, or anything to do with closeness. It was just a suggestion, perhaps a rather interesting one.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2006, 08:45:44 AM »
There is a really cute picture of Marie and Tatiana with kittens in the Alexei with kittens thread taken around 1905-1907, really a must see, rather rare I think. Of course, perhaps I like it more because I love cats. ;)

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2006, 10:10:26 AM »
That photo is sweet, Imperial_Angel, thanks for the pointer. :)

However, I can't help but notice how distant they are.  I may be doing a Sigmund Freud and running away with myself here, but they just don't look comfortable together in the picture.

Of course, as Georgy quite rightly said, there may very well be a plethora of photos of Tatiana and Maria together.  But, the more I think about it, the more I seem to think that there was some sort of difference between the sisters.  I don't feel that there was between any other of the sisters, it's just that Tatiana and Maria seem, to me, to be so different as to have nothing in common.  The way they're in that picture together just looks so awkward, like they're two strangers instead of sisters.

Ok, I need to stop the Freud analysing now.  This is what happens to you when you do Literature degrees.  You analyse EVERYTHING. ;)

Rachel
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Emilia

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2006, 10:38:30 AM »
Tatiana and Maria and an umbrella


Offline imperial angel

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2006, 10:44:58 AM »
Yes, analysing is great, but you can get too far out to space in historical opinions, if you start saying psychology this and that, or any other academic discipline. I think you are aware of that though. ;) I think it is a valid point whatever the photos show ( and they rather seem to support what we think), that Marie and Tatiana had very different personalities, and not that much in common. They were close being raised together with not so much outside contac, but other than that may not have had anything in common, besides the obvious.

Otma were very close, but sometimes in pairs, and Tatiana and Marie seem rather different to me, although they loved each other as sisters. I have a younger sister, and we have nothing in common, personalities that are polar opposites, and barely say a word to each other. And there is only a few photos of us together in the last few years, and we don't look close.  We don't say anything to each other because there isn't much to say. That's just my own experience. However, I think Tatiana and Marie were most likely closer than that, but not particularly close.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2006, 10:59:18 AM »
I think that's a good analogy with your own experience, Imperial Angel.  And don't worry, I am fully aware of the limitations of analysing realtionships through grainy photographs.  However, body language is a proven indicator of what's really going on in a relationship, so I don't think it's completely lacking in substance.

My sister and I are best friends, and that comes through in the photographs we have of us together.  In the photos of Tatiana and Marie, there is no warmth and no 'connection' between them as far as I can see.

While I am sure they loved each other just as much as they loved every other member of their family, I think they had very little in common.  And that's not just an opinion formed from analysing photographs in a pseudo-Freudian manner, but from considering their personalities too.  I could be completely off here, but hey..it's an interesting point for discussion.

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2006, 11:08:16 AM »
yes, body language is something that is a good indicator in photos. I think all things like history and psychology can inform one another, within reason. You are a execellant example of using things within reason, to be informative, and not ''out there''. I think you do a great analysis of things. Anyway, yes, both in body langauage,in what we know of them in history, and in personalities they do seem to be sisters who I am sure didn't hate each other, but were opposites.
Tatiana and Marie were very different people, and in the most recently posted photo, I think their distance is rather apparent in body language.Just my opinion, but I agree with Ra- Ra-  Rasputin in this. They are both very cute in this photo, but look distant.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2006, 11:11:56 AM »
Thank you very much. :)  I do my best.

Paying through the nose for university education has to have benefitted me somehow...;)

Rachel
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'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Aliss_Kande

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2006, 05:43:45 PM »
I always thought the most recent photo was of Olga and Marie? ???

Offline Sophia_Skymind

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2006, 06:46:30 PM »
Hi!

Me too, I always thought the last pic was of Olga and Maria. But here I have one that's for sure of Tatiana and Maria, around 1908, on the Standart. Aren't they cute?  :) I don't think it has been posted before on this thread.



Well, as for weither Tatiana and Maria were close, here is my opnion: we know the girls almost naturally splited up in pairs, little and big. So it's kind of natural that there must have been greater complicity between the girls who shared a bedroom, meaning, OT versus MA.

I don't think it has much to do with age differences, rather  with personnality. Tatiana probably felt closer to Olga's reflexions about life in general, then Maria's games and, hum...flirts? ;D And don't forget that Maria, being paired with Nastya, was treated for a long time by her family as younger then she really was (read that in a lady-in-waiting's book, I think).

I think it also depends of the year we consider. If we talk about Maria's early years, then Tatiana surely felt closer to Olga then to her smallest siblings, which she made a point of honour to herself to protect. Remember they called her the Governess...Later, it may have changed, when Maria grew, and Nastya was still a child, and maybe still wished to remain so for a while.

I've got lots of brothers and sisters myself, and I feel close to all of them. But I share different kinds of closeness with all of them. It may seems strange, but not so when you're living in it. Every family has it's own dynamics, and personnality is like a bubble lamp: it changes only slightly all the time, not enough for an outsider to see it, but enough for it's owner to notice it.
( I like psychology: that's my field of study. I'm in university, too. Just finished mid-terms exams, in fact. ;D )

Here are links to photos that (I believe) show sparks of friendship and complicity between Tatiana and Maria.

With Olga:
http://www.livadia.org/mashka/images/OTMnew.jpg

OTMAA in 1906 (I like the way they're holding hands)
http://www.glintofgold.org/romanovs/pics/otmaa1906-2.jpg

OTMA, 1906 (They all look both close and distant. Beautiful. You can almost feel the link between them, they're like roots from the same tree)
http://www.livadia.org/ana/1901-1906/23.jpg

P.S.: The second photo comes from Glint of Gold. I don't know who colored it. I'm posting it because it's the only place where I remember I could find it. I'm sorry if it offends anyone, for it's surely wasn't my intention.
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Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2006, 11:16:46 AM »
Sorry, don't have the b&w, but putting them here because someone probably does, and these are jsut examples:

TMA

OTM


Offline Missy-T

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2006, 04:50:23 PM »
B&W:
OTM
TMA
Like the coloring btw ;)

Offline Petrushka

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2006, 06:29:00 PM »
Hi all, just a couple of small points on this.  I have a huge amount of books etc and would tend to agree there are less of M&T together specifically.
As you've said I'd rather not speculate on any discontent or potential preference between the family - what certainly seems to be true (if we accept the vast majority of personality descriptions) is that M&T probably had the most obviously different outlook on people and life - with Tatiana being viewed by most as particularly like her mother - regal and somewhat haughty, whilst Maria seems always to be described as very warm, open and quite removed from her imperial status.  At a very basic level we could summise a real difference therefore.
One point worth mentioning however, is that Maria seems to be responsible for a larger number of published photos than the other girls.  I think there is a noticably higher number of pictures featuring OTA and Alexei /Nicholas where one can only assume Maria was busily snapping away (as much as you can with a box brownie).  I'd like to think this is the main explanation.

It's funny the more I explore this site the more I see others recognising little things I always thought only I would notice!

I need to try and not be so selfish with 'my' Romanov's...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Petrushka »

Offline Holly

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2006, 11:23:26 AM »
The photo labled Tatiana and Maria with the umbrella is actually Olga and Maria.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Holly »
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Offline otmafan

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Re: Tatiana with Maria pictures
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2006, 01:42:53 PM »
Tatiana and Maria on the Standart: