Author Topic: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals  (Read 61876 times)

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Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2008, 05:25:02 AM »
hey it's me again about The second daughter of HRH the Duke of Berry

How many children did she have?

Offline Tybalt

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2008, 09:58:15 AM »
hello!
  I suppose you 'rre speaking about charles of artois, duke of berry (1778+1820), he had 2 daughters from Amy Brown (april 8th 1783-Maidstone+may 7th 1876-Couffé-France-) : Charlotte Marie Augustine (july 13th 1808- London+july 13th 1886-Turin) , created countess of Issoudun and married on october the 8th of 1823 in Paris with Ferdinand de Faucigny-Lucinge, prince of Lucinge (september 8th 1789- Versailles+ march 18th 1866- Paris), 5 children and Louise Charlotte Marie(december 19th 1809-London+december 26th 1891-Couffé), created countess of Vierzon and married on june the 16th of 1827 in Paris with Charles Athanase Marin de Charette de La Contrie, baron of La Contrie (january 14th 1796-Saint Donatien-Brittany+march 16th 1848-Couffé), 10 children.

Offline José

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2008, 03:18:26 PM »
The Countess d'Isoudun was the gr.gr.grand-mother of Anne-Aymone Sauvage de Brantes.
None other than the wife of the former president Valéry Giscard d'Estaing

http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=pt;spouse=on;m=RL;i=42099;l1=0;i1=42099;l2=4;i2=42136

From this site you can look for her descendantes as well as her sister Vierzon's

Offline Mari

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2008, 07:43:10 AM »

The Catholic Encyclopedia does a Biography on one of the sons of the Countess of Vierzon named Charette...click on the link and it is on the page and also mentions his two brothers.

http://books.google.com/books?id=q4IqAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA24&dq=countess+of+Vierzon&ei=x08gSKGqIIWyyQTAuK3WBg

Offline Norbert

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2008, 03:09:17 PM »
I don't think that members of the Royal family would have stood as god parents to a Princes bastard issue. No matter how well they married. I'd  certainly be very surprised if Henri "V" would have had anything to do with them.

Offline Norbert

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2008, 03:16:11 PM »
interestingly Amy claimed that he was the father of TWO other children. The eldest " John Freeman" 1804-1866 had a son William who Maria Gennara daughter of Prince Luigi of Two Sicilies.

Offline beladona

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2008, 03:54:51 PM »
Children of countess de vierzon:
Charles Louis 1830-1830
Athanase 1832-1911
Louis-Marie 1834-1919
Henriette 1835-1932
Ferdinand 1837-1917
Urbain 1839-1925
Alain 1841-1916
Armand 1843-1909
Colette 1846-1921
Anne 1847-1909

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2008, 01:57:34 AM »
It's strange that Prince Luigi gave his daughter to William Freeman. He knew probably that Freeman was a descendant of HRH the Duke of Berry. All the Bourbon family must have known about it...what do you think about it Norbert?

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2008, 02:08:58 AM »
Hello Norbert

I had this idea because, in the book of Alain decaux The Duchess of Berry.
 it's said that this princess, when her husband tragically died 1820, she took care of his daughters Charlotte & Louise. The King granted them some titles & the duchess planned a marriage for Charlotte (1823) I remember an anecdote.  Mlle d'Issoudun's trousseau was so wonderful, that it seemed like the same for a Fille de France, exposed in the windows of the store, and made the admiration of parisians at that time.
The Duchess seemed proud of it. That's why I thought Henri V & his sisters were still in contact...Maybe they were more human than we often believe...

Interesting debate :)

When he died Charles told his brother to take care of his daughter Caroline.

Offline Mari

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2008, 02:36:46 AM »
The Duchess of Berry and the Court of Louis XVIII portrays a very kind Duchess of Berry! Click on the link and read page 167 and 168 which claims that "She was a Second Mother to the two girls."

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=FjfRbXJqGGwC&dq=the+duchess+of+berry&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=Xbz8b3A4i9&sig=MXsWfi3HrSi3_bDnhQSNkJ_tI_8#PPA167,M1

Offline Norbert

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2008, 04:01:06 AM »
I'm sure privately the Duchess would be kind to the girls ( very like Queen Adelaide was with the children of William IV) and lets face it the Duchess was hardly the first to throw stones. But i would be surprised if they had been recognised publicly. Consider the religious background of Henri V  and his court in exile.

Offline Norbert

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2008, 04:03:40 AM »
He must have been convincing eh? But interesting that of the four children only two were recognised . I think we should refer to Remi

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2008, 04:32:27 AM »
Oh yes you're right This court in exile seems to be very religious. For sure Henri V had a strong christian faith. 
But I think their deeply religious image was to please their partisans in France who were mainly catholics...Louis XVIII showed he was tolerant with protestants & Jews in 1814 (in the Charte) and I believe it was the same with The Angouême, Berry & Chambord. They had to accomodate the strong principes their partisans were fans of, with the reality of their feelings.
It's probably the case when they had to carry about Berry's illegitimate children. He was such an hero & looked like so much like Henri IV that the religious aspects stayed behind.

Offline StevenL

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2008, 05:38:03 AM »
The Duchess of Berry and the Court of Louis XVIII portrays a very kind Duchess of Berry! Click on the link and read page 167 and 168


The rather prolific author quoted at the link above is not a reliable source for accurate historical information.
His many books read like romanticized novels about historical persons, not serious biographical studies.

Offline Mari

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Re: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2008, 10:30:49 PM »
Do you have a source for the Biography of this Author? I have found that he wrote The Memoirs of the Empress Marie Louise. From the French of Imbert ... and that he is listed in Chamber's Encyclopedia: A Dictionary of Universal Knowledge as a source for the works of Madame Girardin. He is also listed with these Authors as a leading history of the Second Empire: (see below)

    Among the leading comprehensive histories of the Second Empire include:

    * De la Gorce, Histoire du second empire, (four volumes, Paris, 1885-98), and
    * Taxile Delord, Histoire du second empire, (six volumes, Paris, 1869-76).
    * Bernhard Simson, Ueber die Beziehungen Napoleond III. zu Preussen und Deutschland, (Freiburg, 1882)
    * Adolf Ebeling, Napoleon III. und sein Hof, (Cologne, 1891-94)
    * Thirra, Napoléon III avant l'empire, (Paris, 1895)
    * E. Ollivier, L'Empire libéral, (Paris, 1895-1909)
    * A. L. Imbert de Saint-Amand, Napoleon III at the Height of his Power, (New York, 1900)
    * T. W. Evans, Memoirs of the Second French Empire, (New York, 1905)
    * David Harvey, Paris: Capital of Modernity, (New York: Routledge, 2003)
    * Marie-Clotilde-Elisabeth Louise de Riquet, comtesse de Mercy-Argenteau, The Last Love of an Emperor: reminiscences of the Comtesse Louise de Mercy-Argenteau, née Princesse de Caraman-Chimay, describing her association with the Emperor Napoléon III and the social and political part she played at the close of the Second Empire (Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday, Page & Co., 1926)




 But I would love to learn more about him.... :)