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Topic: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals  (Read 37210 times)
Reply #45
« on: May 09, 2008, 05:37:58 AM »
StevenL Offline
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But I would love to learn more about him.... Smiley

His dates: 1834-1900. Most of his works form a series, "Women of the French Court." He wrote in general on women of the Valois court, the women of the courts of Louis XIV and Louis XV, but also more specifically about the following women, most of whom are the subject of more than one of his works: Marie Antoinette, Josephine, Marie Louise, the Duchess of Angouleme, the Duchess of Berry, Marie Amélie. He also wrote on the Napoléons and the revolution of 1848.

I am sorry that I sounded a bit harsh about the author's reliability, but there are many of these books in the library I use, and most appear to reflect the author's colorful imagination in his attempt to bring his heriones to life -- a "biographical technique" which I find to be completely goofy.
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Reply #46
« on: May 09, 2008, 10:00:32 AM »
Norbert Online
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I agree with you, but every generation re-interoperates it's history. Stalin and Mao were seen as  hero's of the people  until recent times.
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Reply #47
« on: May 09, 2008, 11:11:43 AM »
Mari Offline
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Yes, and remember He was writing in the Victorian Era and they tend to sentimentalize. He apparently is still a cited source. It reminds me of the George Bancroft School of thought in the American Revolution... same type of reading.  Thank you for the further information.
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Reply #48
« on: July 13, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »
The Prussian Offline
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Hello.

I am doing a study of genetics and I'm using the Bourbon-Artois line as one of my topics; as such, I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether there exists any portraits of the various illegitimate children of the French kings and princes?

In particular, I am wondering about the children of Louis XV, as well as Charles, Duc de Berry.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry
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Reply #49
« on: July 18, 2008, 12:33:38 AM »
The Prussian Offline
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Hmm... no replies.

Well, I'd best show what I've already got.

I use www.geneall.net and Wikipedia as a starting point for my research, and it also has some pictures of the children in question.

Mistress 1: Louise Françoise de la Baume le Blanc, duchesse de la Vallière (1644 - 1710)


Child 1:
Charles de La Baume Le Blanc (1663 - 1665)

Child 2:
Philippe de La Baume Le Blanc (1665 - 1666)

Child 3:
Marie-Anne de Bourbon, mademoiselle de Blois (1666 - 1739)


Child 4:
Louis de Bourbon, comte de Vermandois (1667 - 1683)


Mistress 2: Marie Angélique de Scoraille de Roussille, duchesse de Fontanges (1661 - 1681)


Child 1:
Unnamed infant (1680)


Mistress 3: Claude de Vin (1640 - 1687)

Child 1:
Louise de Maisonblanche (1675 - 1718)


Mistress 4: Françoise Athenais de Rochechouart, marquise de Montespan


Child 1:
?Unnamed infant (1669 - 1672)

Child 2:
Louis Auguste de Bourbon, duc du Maine (1670 - 1736)


Child 3:
Louis César de Bourbon, comte de Vexin

Child 4:
Louise Françoise de Bourbon, mademoiselle de Nantes (1673 - 1743)


Child 5:
Louise Marie Anne de Bourbon, mademoiselle de Tours (1674 - 1681)

Child 6:
Françoise Marie de Bourbon, mademoiselle de Blois (1677 - 1749)


Child 7:
Louis Alexandre de Bourbon, comte de Toulouse (1678 - 1737)



So that's what I've got on Louis XIV's illegitimate children.


Now for Louis XV's illegitimate children.

Mistress 1: Marie Thérèse Françoise Boisselet

Child 1:
Charles Louis Cadet de Gassicourt (1769 - 1821)


Mistress 2: Lucie-Madeleine d' Estaing (1743 - 1826)

Child 1:
Agnès Lucie Auguste (1761 - 1822)

Child 2:
Aphrodite Lucie d' Auguste (1763 - 1819)


Mistress 3: Jeanne Luisa Tiercelin

Child 1:
Benoît Louis Le Duc (1764 - 1837)


Mistress 4: Catherine Leonor Bernard (1740 - 1769)

Child 1:
Louise Françoise Adélaïde de Saint-Germain (1769 - 1850)


Mistress 5: Anne Couffier de Romans, dame de Meilly-Coulonges (1737 - 1808)

Child 1:
Louis Aimé de Bourbon (1762 - 1787)


Mistress 6: Françoise de Châlus, duchesse de Narbonne-Lara (1734 - 1821)


Child 1:
Louis Marie Jacques Amalric de Narbonne-Lara (1755 - 1813)



Mistress 7: Marie Louise O' Murphy (1734 -1814)

Child 1:
Agathe Louise de Saint-André (1754 - 1774)


Mistress 8: Pauline Félicité de Mailly, mademoiselle de Nesle (1712 - 1741)

Child 1:
Charles Emanuel de Vintmille, marquis de Luc (1741 - 1814)


Mistress 9: ?

Child 1:
Antoine, comte d' Horne (1735 - 1765)

Child 2:
Emilie Adélaide Filleul (1770 - 1802)



Mistress 10: Marguerite Cathwerine Haynault (1736 - 1823)

Child 1:
Agnès Louise de Montreuil (1760 - 1837)

Child 2:
Anne Luisa de La Réale (1763 - 1831)


Notable aside - Charles Auguste Joseph, comte de Flahaut, the son of Emilie Adélaide Filleul (Mistress 9, Child 2) appears to have had an affair with Hortense Eugénie Cécile de Beauharnais, the daughter of the Empress Josephine, and supposedly a child was born Charles Auguste Louis Demorny (1811 - 1865).


Charles Auguste Joseph, comte de Flahaut AND Hortense Eugénie Cécile de Beauharnais

Can anyone confirm or deny that? And does anyone have a picture of that son?

Thanks,
Barry
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Reply #50
« on: July 18, 2008, 02:18:34 AM »
Mari Offline
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This is a list of Mistresses of the Kings of France. Perhaps that will help you as you search for illegitimate Children. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_royal_mistresses

   


« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 02:53:04 AM by Mari » Logged
Reply #51
« on: July 18, 2008, 01:56:14 PM »
Mari Offline
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I found something else that may help!

Quote
Louis XIV had 13 known illegitimate children. Most of those were by either Louise-Françoise de Le Baume Le Blanc, Mademoiselle de La Vallière, or Françoise-Athénaïs de Rochechouart de Mortemar, marquise de Montespan, and those who survived infancy were legitimated.

Louis XV had many mistresses, and at least 15 illegitimate children are known. Only one was legitimated: Louis-Aimé de Bourbon (1762-87), called l'abbé de Bourbon, son of Anne Couffier de Romans (1737-1808). His arms, granted in 1783, were: France differenced by an orle and a riband in bend sinister gules. (Michel Antoine, Le Dur Métier de Roi, 1986, p.299).

Charles-Ferdinand d'Artois, duc de Berry and younger son of the future Charles X, had a long relationship in London with Amy Brown, during the Bourbons' exile. Two daughters came of it; when the duc was assassinated in February 1820 in Paris, he asked on his deathbed to see his former mistress and his children and entrusted them to the royal family, which treated them well. The elder, Charlotte-Marie-Augustine (1808-86), was made comtesse d'Issoudun and married to the prince de Faucigny-Lucinge. The younger, Louise-Marie-Charlotte (1809-91), was made comtesse de Vierzon and married to the Athanase-Charles, baron de Charette (the present (1996) French foreign minister Hervé de Charette is her great-great-grandson). In the legitimization letters, Louis XVIII granted to the two young women the following arms: the comtesse d'Issoudun, Azure a pairle couped between three fleurs-de-lys or, on a chief ingrailed of the second three fleurs-de-lys of the first, the comtesse de Vierzon: Azure a tower inclined argent, on a chief ingrailed or three fleurs-de-lys azure. The ingrailed chief recalls the traditional ingrailed border of Berry (although the duke's arms were different), and the charges both recall the arms of the cities. Note that Issoudun and Vierzon are both cities in the province of Berry.

I don't know if your interested in all of this but here it is anyway!

Gaston d'Orléans had an illegitimate son, Louis bâtard d'Orléans (1628-92), comte de Charny. Philippe II d'Orléans had by Mademoiselle Florence, dancer at the Opera: Charles de Saint-Albin, abbé d'Orléans (1698-1764), legitimized 1708, archbishop of Cambrai. By the comtesse d'Argentan: Jean-Philippe d'Orléans (1702-48), le chevalier d'Orléans, grand-prieur de France, leg. 1706: Orléans an orle and a baton couped in bend sinister argent. Louis-Philippe Id'Orléans had by Mme de Villemomble: Louis-Etienne, comte de Saint-Phar (1759-1825) and Louis-Philippe, comte de Saint-Albin (1761-1829), both legitimized 1815.

There are numerous bastard sons in the Bourbon family. Every duc de Bourbon from Louis I to Jean II included has illegitimate sons. Some names of note are: Hector and Perceval, sons of Louis II (Perceval bore on a bend a semy-de-lys, over all three bends sinister PA). Jean I had Jean, abbot of Cluny (†1485, bore France a bend sinister), and Alexandre among others.

One interesting line is that of the comtes de Roussillon, Charles I, duc de Bourbon had by Jeanne de Bournan Louis bâtard de Bourbon (†1486), legitimated 1463, comte de Roussillon: France a bend sinister raguly gules, his crest was a fish roasting over flames! (PA). he married Jeanne, bâtarde de France, natural daughter of Louis XI: France a bend sinister argent, and had only Charles (†1507 s.p.). But Louis also had a natural son Renaud bâtard de Bourbon (†1483), archbishop of Narbonne: Argent on a bend azure a semy-de-lys or and a fillet in bend gules. He in turn had two natural children, Charles bâtard de Bourbon (†1504), bishop of Clermont and Suzanne, both bearing: Argent on a bend sinister azure a semy-de-lys or and a fillet in bend sinister gules, all within a bordure ingrailed of the last (Suzanne obtained permission to bear the same arms from the duc de Bourbon). Another natural child of Louis was Jeanne, legitimated 1492, whose arms granted in 1490 were: Quarterly argent on a bend sinister azure a bendlet sinister gules between six fleurs-de-lys or, and chequy or and sable.

Jean II, duc de Bourbon had Mathieu bâtard de Bourbon (†1505), seigneur de Botheon, known as "le grand bâtard de Bourbon", who bore Bourbon a bendlet sinister. From him also came the line of Bourbon-Malause bore Argent on a bend azure a semy-de-lys or and a riband in bend gules. The line of Bourbon-Busset bears France a baton couped in bend gules, on a chief argent a cross potent between four crosslets or. Originally the Bourbon-Busset arms were Argent on a pale azure a semy-de-lys or and a bend gules, on a chief Jerusalem.

Jean II de Bourbon, comte de Vendôme, had Louis (†1510), bishop of Avranches: Bourbon-Vendôme a bend sinister raguly.

Louis de Bourbon, comte de Soissons (†1641) had a son Louis-Henri de Bourbon-Soissons, comte de Dunois: France a baton couped in bend sinister and a bordure gules (D'Hozier) whose only daughter by his wife Angélique-Cunégonde de Montmorency-Luxembourg was Louise-Léontine-Jacqueline, married to Charles-Philippe d'Albert, duc de Luynes.

Henri III Jules de Bourbon, prince de Condé, had a daughter Julie de Bourbon (1668-1710), Mademoiselle de Châteaubriant, legitimated, bearing France a baton couped in bend sinister gules; married to Armand de Lesparre de Madaillan (D'Hozier).

The line of Dunois-Longueville comes from Jean (1403-68), comte de Dunois, companion in arms of Jeanne d'Arc, who bore Orléans a bend sinister argent . His son had already changed the arms to Orléans a bend couped argent . It ended with Charles-Paris d'Orléans, duc de Longueville et d'Estouteville (1649-72). An illegitimate line from Longueville is Rothelin, which bore in the 18th c. quarterly or a bend gules (Baden) and or on a pale gules three chevrons of the field (Neuchâtel), overall France a bend sinister couped and a label argent (Orléans-Longueville), although the author of the line, François bâtard de Longueville (†1600) bore Orléans a bend sinister couped argent. Charles d'Angoulême, father of François I, had Jeanne, legitimated in 1501, married to Jean de Longuevic and mother of Jacqueline married to the duc de Montpensier; Madeleine, and Souveraine legitimated in 1521.
Quote

References







http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/roygenea.htm
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 02:02:02 PM by Mari » Logged
Reply #52
« on: July 21, 2008, 06:03:27 AM »
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Hi.

Thanks for the response.

The information is interesting, if a little bit confusing (when the discussion of the various coats of arms begins).

One of the more interesting illegitimate children of French royalty (whom I discovered after I began this post) is Charles of Angouleme, the son of Charles IX, one of the last Valois kings (right?).

According to Wikipedia.org, he apparently had sons, but I cannot find any information on that family - can anyone help?





Found at: http://www.corneilledelyon.artvibrations.com/corneilledelyon/artfile1.php

Barry
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Reply #53
« on: July 21, 2008, 10:54:24 AM »
umigon Offline
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Hi!

In this page you can see further information on Charles IX's descendants:

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/capet/capet23.html#H2

By the way, the pic you posted shows Charles, Duke of Angouleme, but it's not Charles IX's son, it's Francis I's youngest son, born 1522 and die 1545.

Hope to have helped you!
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Reply #54
« on: July 25, 2008, 04:59:28 AM »
The Prussian Offline
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Hello.

Thanks for clarifying that picture, otherwise I would have kept thinking it was Charles IX's illegitimate son.

Further thanks for the information, it's all very good.

My other interest in the illegitimate children of French royalty was whether any of them actually achieved anything? I mean some of them were Dukes, but that was only because their fathers were Kings or Princes.

Did any of them actually make a genuine contribution to history in the way that illegitimates like William the Conqueror, James FitzJames or Don Juan of Austria did?

I can't find one that actually showed any worthwhile skill or talent... perhaps Cesar de Bourbon, son of Henry IV?

Thanks,
Barry
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Reply #55
« on: December 28, 2008, 08:12:46 PM »
susana Offline
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IMO Emilie bears resemblance to Napoleon I both as an infant and as a young woman. I apologize not having my source at hand but there was a little girl born to one of the officer's wives on St Helena who had a dead on resemblance to him. Was it Montholon? Sorry I like to have my sources handy but gave this book on the poisoning of Napoleon I to the public library. Won't do that again.
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Reply #56
« on: December 29, 2008, 04:07:05 AM »
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Yes, I think her name was Helene Montholon. Do you have any pics of her?


This book here is new and I had some contacts to the author, who told me to tell others of the book:

Please be so kind and order it, if you are interested  ( helped him with one chapter a bit :-))



EMPEREUR  DES  FRANÇAIS


15,5 x 24 cm – 240 pages – plus de 150 portraits et illustrations
biographie complète des 156 descendants – tableaux généalogiques
blasons et statistiques – table des noms cités, etc.

EN SOUSCRIPTION jusqu’au 1er septembre 2008

Bulletin et chèque à envoyer chez l’auteur :
M. Eddie de Tassigny   8, rue Marquis   F – 76100   Rouen
Pour l’étranger : IBAN : FR76 1830 6000 1009 2133 3300 090 ; BIC : AGRIFRPP883

LA  DESCENDANCE  DE  NAPOLÉON  Ier,  EMPEREUR  DES  FRANÇAIS

Nom et prénom : …………………………………………………………...

Adresse : ……………………………………………………………………

Téléphone et mail : ………………………………………………………..

Commande …… exemplaire(s)
à 30 € pièce ; 35 € hors de France (40 et 45 après le 1er septembre)

soit la somme de ……… €, franco de port


TABLE DES MATIÈRES

Préface de M. Jean-Yves Labadie …………………………………………………… 3

Introduction du comte Walewski …………………………………………………… 5

Chapitre 1 - LÉON ……….………………………… 9
La belle Éléonore – Le premier mariage de ma mère – La naissance d’un aiglon –
Je faillis être le fils de Joséphine ! – Les deuxième et troisième mariages de ma mère –
Un prénom à demi impérial – Une éducation de prince – La revanche de Waterloo –
L’Aiglon des boulevards – Mûr pour la vie politique – Ma famille : ma consolation

Chapitre 2 - WALEWSKI …………………………….. 64
Avant l’arrivée de l’Empereur – La fatale rencontre – « Ma douce amie » –
L’enfant de Wagram – En guise d’affection – L’île du repos – Les dernières années de Mère – Mon arrivée à Paris – L’armée – La politique – Mes alliances

Chapitre 3 – REICHSTADT ………………………… 137
Le Fils de l’Homme – L’espoir des Français – Napoléon II pendant deux jours –
Je veux être Français ! – Le testament de Ste-Hélène – Âme de fer dans un corps de cristal – Je n’étais qu’un embarras – Mes deux autres obsèques – Ma postérité

Annexe 1 - Arbres généalogiques ……………………… 171
Synthèse de la descendance de Napoléon Ier – En résumé – Les premiers degrés Léon – Les premiers degrés Walewski – La descendance masculine de l’Empereur –
Les porteurs actuels du nom Walewski – Descendance d’Éléonore Denuelle
de La Plaigne – Descendance de Maria Walewska – Descendance de Marie-Louise –
Un cousinage insolite de la descendance Léon – Un cousinage insolite chez les Walewski –
Deux cousinages insolites de l’Aiglon – Aperçu de la maison Poniatowski

Annexe 2 - Armorial napoléonien ……………………… 190
Léon – Łączyński – Colonna Walewski – de Habsbourg-Lorraine – Reichstadt –
Montagu of Sandwich – de Ricci – de Bourqueney – Mathéus – Rossi del Barbazzale – Barthomivat de Neufville – d’Ayala Valva – Le Duc de Lillers – Riant – Bernard de Meurin –
de Laguiche – de Vogüé – de Rougé – d’Alverny – de Roffignac – Le Roux de Bretagne –
Desmousseaux de Givré – Kervyn de Volkaersbeke – de La Rochefoucauld

Annexe 3 – Statistiques …………………………… 198
Les Léon sur 6 générations – Les Walewski sur 6 générations –
La descendance de Napoléon Ier sur 7 générations – Le classement par profession

Annexe 4 – Que pensent-ils de leur ancêtre ? ………………… 204

Annexe 5 – Les « putatifs » (les prétendus enfants de Napoléon Ier) …… 219
« Un Napoléon noir » – Marie-Rose – Joséphine Souham – Napoléon-Charles Bonaparte –
Napoléon, vicomte Duchâtel – Jules Barthélémy-Saint-Hilaire – une fille –
Émilie de Pellapra – Gérard de Nerval – Paolina Mathis de Cacciorna –
Karl Eugin von Megerle von Mühlfeld – Camillo-Paolo Mathis de Caccirona –
Marie-Louise de Beausset – Théodore-Auguste Forcade –
Napoléone de Montholon – Frédéric Gordon-Bonaparte – Elizabeth Runbol –
Joséphine de Montholon – Une fille de l’Aiglon ? : Eugénie de Lunck

Bibliographie et remerciements ………………………. 227

Table alphabétique des familles citées …………………… 231

Table des matières ……………………………… 235

Questions en suspend ……………………………. 237



Thank you! I haven't ordered the book yet, but it would be interesting Smiley
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     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)
Reply #57
« on: January 04, 2009, 05:45:56 PM »
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I'd love to have the book if its in English??
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Reply #58
« on: March 14, 2009, 02:28:56 AM »
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I have seen a few pictures of her and I have a few in my books. Right now my scanner is down, but I can scan them in when it's back and running.

To me she looks a lot like her mother.

According to the book I have...the one I mentioned in a previous post here is the big intro of Pellapra:

"Caroline immediately sent the news to Napoleon by courier. Nobody, however, seems to have informed him of the birth of his other child, which had occurred in Lyons on 11 November. The mother was Francoise-Marie-Emilie Pellapra, the pretty scatterbrain whom he had met in Lyons in the spring of 1805 and who had eagerly followed him to Paris to be seduced in an alcove adjoining his map-room in the Tuileries. She was slim and attractive, dark-haired and blue-eyed, married to a dour minor government official who was far from appreciating the honor conferred on his wife by the Emperor. Later, when Napoleon heard of the birth and rewarded the cuckolded husband with a post as tax collector, Alain Pellapra relented a little, but his first instinct was to deny paternity of the child. After sending Francoise back to her native Lyons for the birth, he insisted on the child being left there with his mother-in-law, Madame Louise Leroy. The baby girl was given a mixture of her mother's names, her grandmother's and that of Napoleon's deceived wife, for it was still popular to name children after Our Lady of Victories, the gracious Josephine, and Madame Pellapra was giddy-minded enough not to see anything odd in it. For most of the next four years little Emilie-Louise-Marie-Francoise-Josephine stayed in the Leroy apartment in the center of Lyons. From the balcony she could peep across the plain of Les Brotteaux, the scene of some of the most hideous atrocities of the Revolution. Day by day her cheeks plumped into an Italian chubbiness, her small nose gently curved into a budgerigar beak. There could be no doubt she was a Bonaparte."

Well...I don't know. She doesn't resemble the Bonaparte's that much. And really? An alcove of a map-room?

I have a vested interest in the Leroy family of Lyon as I am descended from it. A keen amateur genealogist and a published historian, I have studied in varying degrees of depth, the Leroy family, especially at the time of Napoleon.
There is no doubt that the Leroys owed their 'national' importance' to Napoleon - the brothers Leroy, Printers and Editors of a thriving concern, virtually ruled Lyon in the fifteen years of Napoleon's 'reign'. He was a constant visitor to both brothers, Amable and Michel (Michel was my ancestor), to their houses in Lyon and Paris. According to the few letters that remain in the family, Napoleon was chez Amable in 1805, for a couple of fleeting visits. He did shower the family with gifts and important posts. When he disappeared the Leroys were hounded from Lyon by the patriciate as 'Nouveaux', although they were a respectable leading family of Riom whose services to the community and to the nation had been greater than most of the patriciate of Lyon. Napoleonic gifts have descended to various descendants of Mlle Leroy, yet the question as to her father remains unanswreed, except that her mother was pregnant when she married Pellapra, and Pellapra seemd to have been granted rather too prestigious posts for his mediocre talents!
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Reply #59
« on: March 15, 2009, 01:19:20 AM »
britt.25 Offline
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I'd love to have the book if its in English??

I have the same problem. There is no translation and I haven't ordered the book myself until now, it's also quite expensive and I don't speak french. That is the problem. But when I order it, I will post info.
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     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)
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