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Topic: Illegitimate Children of the French Royals  (Read 38550 times)
Reply #60
« on: September 22, 2009, 05:57:37 PM »
HSH The Duchess of Bourbon Offline
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise-Fran%C3%A7oise_de_Bourbon on wikipediaaa..  (1673-1743)

and her sisters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Marie_Anne_de_Bourbon (1674-1681)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7oise-Marie_de_Bourbon has plenty of pics of her...  (1677-1749)

those three are my favourite "Légitimées de France"



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HSH The Duchess of Bourbon, Princess of the blood
Reply #61
« on: October 09, 2009, 04:27:05 PM »
HSH The Duchess of Bourbon Offline
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anyone one know anything about this lady?! she was a grand daughter of Louis XIV by his favourite son the duc du Maine..
any pics of her as well?
=]
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HSH The Duchess of Bourbon, Princess of the blood
Reply #62
« on: October 10, 2009, 03:14:30 AM »
CountessKate Offline
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W H Lewis wrote a whole book around the Duc du Maine, her father, at the end of which he said "The daughter had been a shadowy figure since her birth, and of her subsequent life we know little or nothing.  At the time of her father's death she was apparently living at Versailles, and in May 1736 was given the late Duc du Maine's rooms there.  In the following year there were rumours of her betrothal to M. de Guise, but apparently nothing came of it."  And that was it about Louise Francoise.
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Reply #63
« on: October 10, 2009, 07:14:34 PM »
gogm Offline
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Wikipedia has a brief article about her at:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise-Fran%C3%A7oise_de_Bourbon_%281707%E2%80%931743%29.
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Reply #64
« on: October 11, 2009, 07:09:26 AM »
HSH The Duchess of Bourbon Offline
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HAHA! it was me that created this article lmao! i started this thread in order to enlarge it Smiley
does anyone know of any pictures of little Mademoiselle du Maine?
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HSH The Duchess of Bourbon, Princess of the blood
Reply #65
« on: October 11, 2009, 01:33:18 PM »
gogm Offline
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I hope somebody has more information about this apparently obscure group.
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Reply #66
« on: October 12, 2009, 10:01:04 AM »
HSH The Duchess of Bourbon Offline
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I hope somebody has more information about this apparently obscure group.

huh lol
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HSH The Duchess of Bourbon, Princess of the blood
Reply #67
« on: October 14, 2009, 10:21:20 AM »
CountessKate Offline
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General de Piepape wrote a biography of the Duchesse du Maine in 1910, which was translated in 1911 into English, and has pretty much the same thing to say as W H Lewis about Mlle du Maine:  "She lived withdrawn in a corner of the palace [Sceaux], caring little for society or intellectual pursuits, and taking, apparently, a view of life diametrically opposed to her mother's.  History has nothing of note to record of her." 

However, he does make a few observations here and there; in 1717 the three du Maine children were introduced to Made de Maintenon, effectively their grandmother by affection if not by blood, and she wrote that "Monsieur du Maine wanted me to see them.  They called here yesterday on their way back from Rambouillet [the chateau of their uncle, the Comte de Toulouse].  They are everything that one could wish; they spoke just as they ought to at their age - there was not a word I should have added or left out, and their grandfather [Louis XIV] would have been highly pleased with them. "  It appears that Mlle du Maine was placed in 'L'abbaye Notre-Dame-la-Royale dite Maubuisson', a very superior convent although from what age Piepape does not say.  When the du Maines were arrested for their part in the Cellamare conspiracy, she was "reinstalled at Maubuisson" as if perhaps she were elsewhere at the time - whether with one or other of her parents (they were arrested separately, in different locations) is not said.  Madame du Maine was imprisoned in various fortresses, but eventually was moved to the more salubrious Chateau de Savigny-sous-Beaune in 1719, at which stage she begged that her daughter might be sent to Anet where her grandmother the Princess de Conde was anxious to have her.  However, Mlle du Maine was transferred from Maubuisson to another convent at Chaillot where she stayed until about 1720, when her recently-released father took her and her brothers with him to Sceaux for a very lukewarm (on his part) reunion with their mother.

When the Duc du Maine died in 1736, Louis XV granted a pension to the Duchesse and Mlle du Maine, so they were not at all badly off.  As W H Lewis observed, Mlle du Maine inherited the Duc's appartments at Versailles.  Piepape writes that the marriage negotiations with the Duc de Guise apparently occurred in 1739, when she was 32; the Duc de Guise was 18.  However, what ended the discussions was not the disparity of age, but money, as the Duchesse du Maine stipulated that the Duc should contribute a revenue of 50,000 livres which the Duc was apparently unwilling to pay.  However, I am dubious about this Duc de Guise; the title at the time was invested in the House of Conde and the Duc de Guise in 1739 was not 18, but 3, the son of the Prince de Conde and Louise Francoise's first cousin.  Piepape also alleges that in 1740 there had been some talk of marrying Mlle du Maine to the Prince de Monaco, who was 51 and a widower, which sounds a little more likely; however, it didn't come to anything either. 

Piepape has one further anecdote about Mlle du Maine; her court hoops were so large that on one occasion they became entangled with those of the Queen and the two women had to stand and pull against each other to disentagle themselves.  Louis XV was most annoyed and M. de La Tremoille was sent to the Duchesse du Maine with the measurement for the hoops Mlle should wear, with the rider that in future she should stand at a more respectful distance from the Queen.  Piepape suggests that Louise Francoise only wore such ultra-fashionable clothes at the instigation of her mother, but he shows no evidence to support this.  He adds that "she was neither pretty or attractive, and save for her dowry, no one would have sought her hand" - I don't know on what basis he made those remarks, but since beauty or wit or charm was generally noted in the princesses of the blood, it seems likely that no mention means there was nothing to note.

Louise Francoise was "taken ill while out riding" noted the Duc de Luynes in his diary.  "No sooner was she place in her carriage than she fainted away.  She never recovered consciousness, and died a few hours later".  She was buried in the Church [chapel?] at Anet where her remains were undisturbed by the Revolution - she was too obscure to excite interest, poor woman.   
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Reply #68
« on: October 20, 2009, 08:33:39 AM »
HSH The Duchess of Bourbon Offline
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what a sad life - thrown from one convent to another =[ what a dull existence: i suppose that this rules out the chance of anyone trying to find a portrait ha =\
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Reply #69
« on: October 20, 2009, 10:15:42 PM »
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 She left her profitable pensions to her first cousin Élisabeth Alexandrine de Bourbon, Mademoiselle de Sens; daughter of her namesake Madame la Duchesse. This is the only other thing I have found to add just a tiny bit more.


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Reply #70
« on: October 21, 2009, 02:54:21 AM »
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Quote
what a sad life - thrown from one convent to another =[ what a dull existence: i suppose that this rules out the chance of anyone trying to find a portrait ha =\

I expect there are portraits out there but there's probably not a hope of identifying them at this stage - neither of her brothers married so there wasn't any family inheritance to be kept together, and the Chateau of Sceaux was pulled down at the time of the Consulat. 

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Reply #71
« on: July 05, 2010, 11:39:19 AM »
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Sorry I have no source however I did read that an officer's wife left St Helena pregnant with Napoleon's child--it was a girl and a spitting image of Napoleon; the photo of the infant shown earlier on this thread is I believe the same baby. My educated selections are: Leon (Denuelle),Walewski, Reichstadt, and the baby girl. Of course when you think of the many camp followers with whom The Great Man may have dallied once and moved on with his army there could be many who will never know to claim or attempt to prove their ancestry.

By the way an alcove off of a map room would have contained furniture and such on which to relax while working out plans. I've seen alcoves in palaces which would serve the purpose of sex acts; so this is believable to me.
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Reply #72
« on: July 25, 2010, 05:56:46 AM »
britt.25 Offline
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Yes, I think this is really Hélène Montholon, whom you speak of. But I think this story is rather speculation. In between I have ordered the book by Eddie de Tassigny (as well as I'm learning french for some months now....a great pleasure :-) and there is really everything about Napoleons children (even the supposed ones)
They speculated ones are under the "putatifs" and there are a lot !!!!

After Eddie des Tassigny Napoleon's speculated children are (even when most of them are rather NOT possible)


- Léon Duvar (née 1794)

- H. de Roche (1797- 1856)

- Joseph Van der Stocken (1797-1856)

- “Napoleon noir” (in 1799 in Egypt)

- Marie-Rose Bonaparte (1772)

- Marie Joséphone Souham (1801-1889)

-- Napoléon Charles Bonaparte (10/10/1802- 05/05/1807)

-- Napoleón Joseph Léon Duchâtel (5/08/ 1804 - 3/01/1884)

-- Jules Barthélemy- Sant Hilaire (19/08/1805-  24/11/1895

--Mme Masson (about 1806)

- Emilie Louise Marie Françoise Joséphine de Pellapra (1806-1871) 

-- Gérard Labrunie , dit « Gérard de Nerval » (1808-1855)

- Paolina Mathis de Cacciorna (1809-1879)

 -- Eugen Alexander Megerle von Mühfeld (1810-1868)

-- Camillo Paolo Mathis, cte de Cacciorna (1809-1891)

- Marie Louise de Beausset (1811-1852)

- Comtesse de Folkemberg (1811-1883)

-- Théodore- Auguste Forcate (1816- 1885)

- Napoléone Marie Hélène Calotte de Montholon- Sémonville  (1816-1907)

In the book of Mr de Tassigny this is an impossible story, because a secret sexual relationship was simply possible at the places (passage from Northumberland)


- Jimmy Gordon Bonaparte (seems to have been a wrong “pretender”)

- Elizabeth Runbol

- Joséphine Marie Caroline Elisabeth de Montholon- Sémonville

- At last : a daughter of Franz von Reichstadt : Eugénie de Lünck
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La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)
Reply #73
« on: August 20, 2010, 05:23:53 PM »
Naslednik Norvezhskiy
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The line of Bourbon-Busset bears France a baton couped in bend gules, on a chief argent a cross potent between four crosslets or. Originally the Bourbon-Busset arms were Argent on a pale azure a semy-de-lys or and a bend gules, on a chief Jerusalem.

Do anybody know why the Bourbon-Bussets chose to differentiate their arms from the regular Bourbon arms (the bend gules on the fleurs-de-lys) by adding Jerusalem in chief? I presume this must be due to some ancestor or in-laws being (titular) King of Jerusalem. or? They did descend from Saint Louis, but even though he was a royal crusader, he was not King of Jerusalem.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 05:28:07 PM by Fyodor Petrovich » Logged
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