Author Topic: Love matches in Victoria's family  (Read 58832 times)

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Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #255 on: May 19, 2007, 07:01:05 PM »
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that Bismarck would take it as insult given the Schleswig-Holstein affair

Why?  Didn't he like the Austenberg bunch because they backed him?

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #256 on: May 19, 2007, 07:12:18 PM »
Because Bismarck wanted S-H for the larger empire, and didn't support Frederick's claims or King Christian's. It was an enmity that would show itself when Dona was presented as a potential wife for Wilhelm. Bismarck was a nasty piece of work when it came to the Augustenburgs.

This situation made it apparent that Christian would most likely become a permanent British resident, and probably (as happened) a naturalized citizen. It was even bandied about that he might be given a British peerage, Duke of Kendal.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 07:26:17 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #257 on: May 19, 2007, 07:58:20 PM »
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Duke of Kendal

Not to get off topic, but wasn't that title last given to the infant son of James II (then Duke of York) and Anne Hyde?

-Duke of NJ

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #258 on: May 20, 2007, 01:27:45 AM »
Well...Busmark did call Dona "the cow from Holstein".  ;)

Offline basilforever

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #259 on: May 20, 2007, 01:55:51 AM »


and he was quite old.

35!  I had better run out and see if my cemetery has any plots available!

I think you mean in reference to Helena's age. The fact that he was prematurely aged made it seem even greater than the 15 year difference. But I think in those days that wasn't really all that unusual. Their age difference was the biggest, but Fritz/Vicky 9 years, Louis/Alice 6 years, Affie/Marie 9 years, Bertie/Alix and Lorne/Louise only 3 years, Arthur/Louise 10 years, Leo/Helen 8 years, and Beatrice not only got her love, but he was 1 1/2 years younger.

I think w/Helena and Christian it may have been more affection on her part, as he may have saw it as a step up and possibly something to do. But 51 years, so they must have done something right.
[/quote]

Yes, I meant older compared to Helena. And yes he was prematurely aged, and that made him seem old. I was thinking of a photo of him with his two little girls, and he looks like their grandfather.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert Victor Christian Edward of Wales, Duke of Clarence and Avondale, Earl of Athlone, Knight of The Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of The Most Illustrious Order of St Patrick

Offline basilforever

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #260 on: May 20, 2007, 02:05:50 AM »
Well...Busmark did call Dona "the cow from Holstein".  ;)

Yes and I think that was based more on political opinions, rather than her actual looks. But a horrible thing to say, she was not a cow at all.

Quote
Not to get off topic, but wasn't that title last given to the infant son of James II (then Duke of York) and Anne Hyde?

Yes their fifth child, Prince Charles was Duke of Kendal, he was also Earl of Wigmore, Baron Holdenby. Their other three sons, James, Edgar and another Charles, were all Dukes of Cambridge.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert Victor Christian Edward of Wales, Duke of Clarence and Avondale, Earl of Athlone, Knight of The Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of The Most Illustrious Order of St Patrick

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #261 on: May 20, 2007, 04:17:58 AM »
Well...Busmark did call Dona "the cow from Holstein".  ;)

Well, sheep dung dipped in clover is still sheep dung, is it not?
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Offline eejm

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #262 on: May 20, 2007, 03:22:05 PM »
Yes...However I pretty much doubt that the marriage of Helena & Christian was a love match (unlike Vicky's & Alice's). It was an arranged marriage that worked. I beleve that they became genuinely fond of each other, but I don't think the affection existed BEFORE the marriage.  :(

Well Helena and Christian must have had some affection for each other before the marriage, or else they wouldn't have agreed to marry each other. I don't know what the attraction to him was, he must have been charming in some way/s, as he wasn't very handsome and he was quite old.

I think that Helena was terrified of becoming what QV intended Beatrice to be - an unmarried, live-in daughter whose only job would be to attend to her (QV's) needs.  Beatrice basically did fulfill this function, but did marry as well.  Helena did not want to be her mother's constant companion, but she was too timid and not headstrong enough to tell this to QV.  Marrying Christian kind of became an escape from that life, but it turned into a very satisfying marriage. 

I believe that when Helena met Christian, and the talk of marriage started up, Helena jumped on the idea and ran with it.  Christian was a kind, amiable guy, Helena was very shy and probably much more so around men, so he likely seemed just fine to her.  Everybody "won," in a sense - QV kept her daughter close, Christian gained a comfortable lifestyle in Britian, Helena got out of her mother's house, and Christian and Helena had a stable, happy marriage. 

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #263 on: May 20, 2007, 03:25:19 PM »
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Duke of Kendal

Not to get off topic, but wasn't that title last given to the infant son of James II (then Duke of York) and Anne Hyde?

-Duke of NJ

It has several royal connections:

The first creation was for John, 4th son of King Henry IV, who was created Earl of Kendal, Earl of Richmond and Duke of Bedford in 1414. The titles became extinct at his death.

The next Kendal creation was for Prince Rupert of the Rhine, nephew of King Charles I and a Royalist commander in the Civil War, who is sometimes (perhaps erroneously) said to have been created Baron Kendal along with the other titles of Earl of Holdernesse and Duke of Cumberland in 1644. This Kendal title, if it ever existed, became extinct on his death without legitimate issue.

The first use of Kendal as a ducal title was in 1666, when Charles Stuart, son of the Duke of York, was given the titles of Duke of Kendal, Earl of Wigmore and Baron Holdenby. He died the following year, when these titles became extinct.

The next creation was for Prince George of Denmark, the husband of Princess (later Queen) Anne, who was created Duke of Cumberland, Earl of Kendal and Baron Wokingham in 1689. He died without surviving issue, and the titles became extinct.

In 1816, at the time of the marriage of Princess Charlotte of Wales (daughter of the Prince Regent) to Prince Leopold of Saxe-Coburg, it was announced that the groom was to be created Duke of Kendal. However, in the end this never happened.

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #264 on: May 20, 2007, 08:04:21 PM »
Well...Prince Harry could be the next Duke of Kendal, since Kent & York are taken  ;)

Offline eejm

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #265 on: May 21, 2007, 07:58:11 PM »
I wonder if the marriages of Victoria's younger children would have been different had Albert lived to see each of them marry.  Albert either witnessed or had a hand in selecting Vicky's, Bertie's, and Alice's spouses.  With the exception of Alfred and his bride Maria Alexandrovna of Russia, the younger children had very minor royals for spouses.  None of these royals brought anything resembling a fortune to their British spouses, and several were lamented by the British people for being drains on the national purse.

If Albert had lived longer, who do you think his children would have married?  Would there have been a Swedish or Dutch marriage?  Would the younger children have married more impressive German royalty?  Would some have remained unmarried?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #266 on: May 21, 2007, 08:07:42 PM »
I think the first 3 marriages will still take place. Vicky, Bertie & Alice. But I think the girls Helena , Louise & beatrice will have a easier time (no need to be companion to mama). I think more German marriages.  ;)

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #267 on: May 21, 2007, 09:35:21 PM »
Well, QV might not have had the need then to keep some daughters nearby but, even without the exacerbation of QV's extended widowhood, the public still might have been fed up with British annuities going to foreign courts and wanted non-foreign marriages. I don't think there would've been any Swedish or further Danish marriages. QV wasn't too high on the Swedish court, I believe and the Danish difficulties probably still would've arisen regardless of Albert's death. The first 3 marriages had all either taken place or the engagements been settled (or nearly so) when Albert died so they wouldn't have changed--anything Albert signed off on QV continued.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #268 on: May 21, 2007, 11:45:33 PM »
Well...Helena, Arthur, Leopold and Beatrice all marry Germans, only Louise married a Scot !  ???

Offline eejm

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Re: Love matches in Victoria's family
« Reply #269 on: May 22, 2007, 09:35:57 AM »
Well...Helena, Arthur, Leopold and Beatrice all marry Germans, only Louise married a Scot !  ???

Yes, but I wonder if Albert been alive if they would have married more prestigious spouses.  Those they did marry were either from insignificant principalities, or were not part of ruling families.