Author Topic: MA & LouisXVI's remains  (Read 44752 times)

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Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2006, 03:19:33 AM »
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I disagree with Coquelicot that it is voyeuristic.


The man found a special place so that he could follow the cart and escort. He bent out of the window, and made this awful drawing.

Where do you see pity in it ? It's just a proud and arrogant old woman, so typically "the Austrian woman". All I feel while looking at it is hate and anger... an a peculiar satisfaction. This idealistic man surely thought "finally, she's broken", he could have shouted, too "voici, Antoinette, elle est foutue !"

He was involved in the revolution as, after, he would be in for Napoléon' s empire. He was just the painter of any government !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by coquelicot »
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2006, 05:11:22 AM »
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The man found a special place so that he could follow the cart and escort. He bent out of the window, and made this awful drawing.

Where do you see pity in it ? It's just a proud and arrogant old woman, so typically "the Austrian woman". All I feel while looking at it is hate and anger... an a peculiar satisfaction. This idealistic man surely thought "finally, she's broken", he could have shouted, too "voici, Antoinette, elle est foutue !"

He was involved in the revolution as, after, he would be in for Napoléon' s empire. He was just the painter of any government !


Well it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose, but to me there is a lot of pity in the drawing.

David was drawing what he saw. She had been separated from her children, and had been festering in a mouldy cell for several months. It's possible that she was very ill.

Would you prefer it if he had drawn her as a noble and beautiful queen?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2006, 05:14:55 AM »
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This man was a voyeur and a bastard, I tell you !



Ooops, don't forget younger members use these boards too coquelicot. ;)
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2006, 05:33:10 AM »
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David was drawing what he saw


... with the eyes of a republican ! So, a proud, arrogant ci-devant reine, finally broken down by glorious republic, with her so typical Habsburg lip so visible that it's a real caricature ! Do we see a mother, here ? Do we see a fragile lady who, till the very end, could move her layers ?

Here, we have nothing more than a black on white gorgona ! Down with the head of the Medusa !
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2006, 05:38:49 AM »
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... with the eyes of a republican ! So, a proud, arrogant ci-devant reine, finally broken down by glorious republic, with her so typical Habsburg lip so visible that it's a real caricature ! Do we see a mother, here ? Do we see a fragile lady who, till the very end, could move her layers ?

Here, we have nothing more than a black on white gorgona ! Down with the head of the Medusa !


We'll have to agree to differ here Coquelicot. Although David was a diehard republican, and thought (like many Frenchmen) that Marie Antoinette had betrayed her country....this drawing makes me admire her more.

Marie Antoinette's large jaw is evident in all her portraits - I don't see it as a caricature.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2006, 05:44:44 AM »
... and I don't agree with you, dear Bell the Cat ! I just can't...
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Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2006, 08:29:25 AM »
  The portrait to the scaffold have always appeared to me as something unreal! I just have trouble believing that this Marie Antoinette was the cheerful elegant queen!

   I guess it proves how dangerous calumnies are, because calumnies and misunderstandings are what brought Marie Antoinette to the scaffold! (in a simplistic way I mean!)

   

Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2006, 08:37:56 AM »
  I found this interesting little article on Madame Tussaud`s museum

"Most of the waxworks inside are pretty incredible--Winston Churchill's is a spot-on match--but there is the occasional miss, like Harrison Ford. There is also the Chamber of Horrors, which goes back to the French Revolution roots of Madame. The Chamber is an homage to different methods of execution, including the very guillotine blade that offed Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. The museum ends with the Spirit of London, which is kind of like a Disneyland ride showing the history of London with animatronic waxworks."

Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2006, 08:39:55 AM »
A short Biography of Madame Tussaud:

"Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum starts with the story of Marie Grosholtz, born in Strasbourg in 1761. Her mother worked as a governess for a Dr Curtins, who made anatomical wax models. From her earliest childhood, Marie learnt modelling techniques with Dr Curtins. Just before the French Revolution, she moved to Paris . Louis XV1 invited her to join the Royal Court at Versailles and teach her art.

During the Revolution, Marie made death masks of royalty and decapitated revolutionaries. Later she organised an exhibition of her work. Her marriage to François Tussaud took her to England where as Marie Tussaud, she travelled about the country for 30 years presenting her exhibition which became world-famous. In 1835, she settled permanently in London . "


Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2006, 09:48:48 AM »
Nice picture I suppose it is madame Tussaud! I would like to know how she came to have the real blade!!!!!!

In any case I did not know that she knew Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, and was something of an Art tutor !!!

Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2006, 09:53:57 AM »


This pic I just adore ! I know it's not historically correct, she was dressed in white up, but I love the way she climbs the stair of the conciergerie, her chest raised, her head up... so noble, so above all these dirty things, this furious mob waiting for her, this humiating cart and awful journey...
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2006, 10:20:29 AM »
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This pic I just adore ! I know it's not historically correct, she was dressed in white up, but I love the way she climbs the stair of the conciergerie, her chest raised, her head up... so noble, so above all these dirty things, this furious mob waiting for her, this humiating cart and awful journey...



Coquelicot that picture is very nice, I imagine her too, standing strait, noble, like a true queen!!!
 She displayed so much courage and dignity, she actually was braver that many revolutionnaries!
 

Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2006, 11:17:50 AM »
Of course, she was, dear Sissi...  ;D "feeling so strong which blood runs in my veins", "I've learned from my mother how to die"...  ;D

I wonder about Madame Tussaud too. I've read that they left the queen's body and went to eat (hey ! there are priorities, you know !), so that Madame Tussaud had the time to take a real imprint of Antoinette's head.
Is that true ? Legend ?

I like this pic because it sounds like a symbolic one, the woman is dressed up like Widow Capet. It's fascinating...
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline Sissi

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2006, 11:58:07 AM »
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Of course, she was, dear Sissi...  ;D "feeling so strong which blood runs in my veins", "I've learned from my mother how to die"...  ;D

I wonder about Madame Tussaud too. I've read that they left the queen's body and went to eat (hey ! there are priorities, you know !), so that Madame Tussaud had the time to take a real imprint of Antoinette's head.
Is that true ? Legend ?

I like this pic because it sounds like a symbolic one, the woman is dressed up like Widow Capet. It's fascinating...



 Pers mentioned that the wax model was an imprint from the real head! I myself do not know anything about that! maybe Pers could tell us some more if he is around here ;D
 It is quite fascinating how much things we can learn just out of a portrait!

In any case if ht imprint was from her real head I find it morbid!!!  :o
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sissi »

Offline coquelicot

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Re: MA & LouisXVI's remains
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2006, 12:24:27 PM »
A mortuary mask is always morbid, I think. I saw Iulius Caesar's effigies... brr. I've a friend who makes plaster masks. It's also bbrrr...  :-X
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.