Author Topic: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread  (Read 21714 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2006, 09:29:37 AM »
Wow, Bell that was brilliant!  :D :D Thanks soooo much!

I always thought that since Elizabeth was 25 in 1660 - too old to be married - she might have entered a convent, being so religious. Then again, she was a Stuart, so what you say is possible! ;)

Anne Stuart would've been 23 in 1660, and Katherine 21. Is it possible that the sudden reversal in their brother's fortunes might have persuaded certain suitors to come their way? I can't find any Protestants suitable, but what about a Catholic?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

palatine

  • Guest
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2006, 05:13:33 PM »
Quote
Wow, Bell that was brilliant! †:D :D Thanks soooo much!

I always thought that since Elizabeth was 25 in 1660 - too old to be married - she might have entered a convent, being so religious. Then again, she was a Stuart, so what you say is possible! ;)

Anne Stuart would've been 23 in 1660, and Katherine 21. Is it possible that the sudden reversal in their brother's fortunes might have persuaded certain suitors to come their way? I can't find any Protestants suitable, but what about a Catholic?


Elizabeth, Anne and Katherine's ages would not have been an obstacle to marriage once Charles II was restored to power. †Although most royal and noble women were married off in childhood in that era, it was not that unusual for some to marry at older ages. †Catherine of Portugal was twenty-four when she married Charles II, Marie de Gonzague was thirty-three when she married Ladislaus IV of Poland, and Sophia of the Palatinate was twenty-eight when she married Ernest Augustus of Hanover.

As for potential husbands, I think there were some Italian princes available. †Henri Jules de Bourbon-Conde, as the first prince of the blood in France, would probably have been selected as a husband for one of them, since Charles II was eager to establish ties with the French royal family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2006, 05:14:42 PM »
Thanks Palatine.

On a different note, what do you all think would've happened if Charles I had actually won the Civil War?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline umigon

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
    • View Profile
    • My Family Tree
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2006, 05:25:11 PM »


And what about Henry (1640-1660) marrying his niece, the future Mary II, and William of Orange marrying Anne...
Gonzalo Velasco Berenguer

My Family Tree: www.tribalpages.com/tribes?userid=umigon

Royal Families: www.tribalpages.com/tribes?userid=gondan

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2006, 05:30:54 PM »
Hmmm, imagine William and Anne as a couple.  ;D ;D ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline ilyala

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2063
  • il y a
    • View Profile
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2006, 05:33:04 PM »
Quote
Thanks Palatine.

On a different note, what do you all think would've happened if Charles I had actually won the Civil War?




on a long run i think monarchy in england would have been doomed. the monarchy came back and stayed, i think because of two things.
1. people hated cromwell's commonwealth and that was their only brush with non-monarchy
2. charles 2nd was a successfull restaurator...

meaning the people had a bad image on non-monarchy, and good imge on monarchy... conveniently forgetting charles 1st. had he won, that wouldn't have happened. also he might have had a feeling of invincibility that would have been equally bad. i think things might have gone the french way (towards 1789)...
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline bell_the_cat

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1685
  • I am he, who will bell the cat
    • View Profile
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2006, 01:11:17 AM »
Quote

And what about Henry (1640-1660) marrying his niece, the future Mary II



Umigon stop this!

This wasn't acceptable in England. †;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline bell_the_cat

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1685
  • I am he, who will bell the cat
    • View Profile
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2006, 01:14:29 AM »
Quote



on a long run i think monarchy in england would have been doomed. the monarchy came back and stayed, i think because of two things.
1. people hated cromwell's commonwealth and that was their only brush with non-monarchy
2. charles 2nd was a successfull restaurator...

meaning the people had a bad image on non-monarchy, and good imge on monarchy... conveniently forgetting charles 1st. had he won, that wouldn't have happened. also he might have had a feeling of invincibility that would have been equally bad. i think things might have gone the french way (towards 1789)...


Very true. I think England, Ireland and Scotland would be a republics today, had Charles won.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2006, 07:00:03 AM »
I agree with you ilyala. When you think about it (actually it's Antonia Fraser who thought about it, I'm currently reading her Charles II bio ;D) it's amazing that after all the war and bloddshed, no one had really given any thought to what the new relationship between parliament and the monarch would be, what powers the monarch had and what powers parliament had - Charles II was restored with all the powers that his father had been executed for using!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline ilyala

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2063
  • il y a
    • View Profile
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2006, 03:36:08 PM »
i think they learned their lesson fast, and had charles been a different kind of person it might not have worked so well.... see the glorious revolution 28 years later... they had learned their lesson and did it better the second time ;)
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


palatine

  • Guest
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2006, 03:46:32 PM »
Quote
On a different note, what do you all think would've happened if Charles I had actually won the Civil War?


Charles won the Civil War by immediately marching on London after the battle of Edgehill.  He established himself as an absolute monarch and Parliament was dissolved for good.  In time, Minette married Louis XIV, the Prince of Wales married La Grande Mademoiselle, while James married Queen Christina of Sweden and moved to Stockholm, where he became Prince Consort.  

Charles negotiated the return of his sister and her children to the Palatinate in 1643.  After they returned to Heidelberg, they fell prey to cannibals, which wiped out that branch of the family.  Charles had other sorrows as well: James succumbed to pneumonia soon after his marriage, leaving no children.  Elizabeth and Henry succumbed to tuberculosis and Henrietta Maria died of plague.  Charles died soon afterwards, and Charles II came to the throne in 1645.

LGM was devastated by Charles IIís inability to learn French, his poor table manners, and his rampant infidelities.  They informally separated after ten years of marriage, although they had only one child, a rather frail little girl named Charlotte.  Charlesís enemies played on LGMís hurt feelings and made her believe that if Parliament came back into existence, Charles would be forced to live with her and to remain faithful to her.  

A war eventually broke out.  Charles led the Royalist army while LGM led and funded the rebels.  She was the greatest female commander since Joan of Arc, so she easily captured most of England, using London as her base.  Charles arrived with what was left of his army to lay siege to London.  LGM ordered her troops to open fire on him and a group of mistresses that he'd brought along.  Charles, Barbara Villiers Palmer, Frances Stuart and Nell Gwyn did not survive the cannonade.  

LGM became the regent for Charlotte and re-established Parliament.  Parliament was granted all of its old powers and a lot of new ones, since LGM never understood politics and preferred to spend her days beautifying the royal palaces.  Charlotte eventually married William of Orange, but the marriage was childless.  Due to Parliamentís fears of Louis XIV, Minette and all nineteen of her children were excluded from the succession ostensibly because of their Catholic faith.  

Scroop Egerton became the King of England after the deaths of Charlotte and William from plague, while the Duke of Hamilton became the king of Scotland.  The Egertons and the Hamiltons repeatedly made war on each other when they weren't fighting off the French claimants to the throne.  

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2006, 05:03:04 PM »
Haha, that was brilliant, though I don't know if it was entirely accurate.  ;D ;D ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline bell_the_cat

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1685
  • I am he, who will bell the cat
    • View Profile
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2006, 12:48:26 AM »
Quote
Haha, that was brilliant, though I don't know if it was entirely accurate. †;D ;D ;D


In fact Barbara Palmer did escape, cunningly disguised as a common prostitute ( ;)). She later wrote her memoirs in the form of an Apologia.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6574
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2006, 06:23:14 AM »
Disguised as a common prostitute?  ;D ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

palatine

  • Guest
Re: Stuart 'Might-Have-Been' thread
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2006, 08:32:01 PM »
Charles IIís cousin Maurice pursued a successful career in the French army after his return from sea in 1653. †He eventually became a Marshal of France and was granted an estate by Louis XIV which gave him the financial wherewithal to marry. †In 1685, Mauriceís eldest son inherited the Palatinate and cut a deal with Louis XIV which averted a French invasion and occupation, freeing up the French field army for other things. †In 1688, Louis XIV's army attacked Holland and successfully prevented William of Orange from invading England. †

With William otherwise occupied, would James II keep his thrones?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »