Author Topic: Re: taking away the family name  (Read 44745 times)

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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2010, 12:28:20 PM »
THe relevance of the Romanians is that King Michael is indisputably head of the family - indeed, a deposed monarch - and he takes the view that he cannot change anything.

Sorry to disappoint, but in December 2007 King Michael did change the Romanian succession laws to allow for the succession of his daughters and their issue to the Headship of the Royal House.

The new Fundamental Rules of the Royal Family of Romania: http://www.familiaregala.ro/uploads/p0002_FundamentalRules.pdf

So it seems that King Michael changed his views about not being able to change anything, yes?  ;)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2010, 12:29:56 PM »
OK, I was out of date.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2010, 12:53:43 PM »
That applies ONLY to the so-called royal house, not the defunct Romanian throne, though. I think the family name remains the same as well.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2010, 02:10:14 PM »
Thinking a bit further along the same theme. Michael of Romania is in a rather different position from the Vladimirovichi, since he does not have a large number of male-line collaterals - in fact, apart from the issue of his half-brother Mircea (whose position was the subject of much litigation),  he has none at all. Further, in December 2007 he was 86 in December 2007, and possibly (I don't know) was simply setting out the position unambiguously while he was still able.

Serious question, not a rhetorical one, has Maria Vladimirovna made any attempts to heal the rift?

Ann

Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
That applies ONLY to the so-called royal house, not the defunct Romanian throne, though. I think the family name remains the same as well.

Actually, if you read the Fundamental Rules that King Michael signed, you will see that a specific Line of Succession to the THRONE of Romania is laid out (to the complete exclusion of the the German Hohenzollerns, who would have ended up "succeeding" to the throne under the old laws):

1.HRH Crown Princess Margarita of Romania, Custodian of the Crown of Romania
2.HRH The Princess Helena of Romania
3.Nicholas de Roumanie (who is to receive the title and style of HRH Prince of Romania on his 25th birthday this year)
4.Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie
5.HRH The Princess Irina of Romania
6.Michael de Roumanie Kreuger
7.Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger
8.HRH The Princess Sophie of Romania
9.Elisabeta Marie Biarneix
10.HRH The Princess Marie of Romania

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2010, 04:44:26 PM »
That may very well be true, Benjamin,  however  there is no Romanian crown. So it is purely academic as it would take a change in the Romanian constitution  to restore the throne, which is highly unlikely. And they remain Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen do they not?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2010, 08:38:58 PM »
Of course, Mr Hall. But even if there is no monarchy in Romania, you know as well as I do that certain members of the formerly reigning Royal House of Romania would like for their dynasty to be restored, or at least for it to have some kind of role in the country (Crown Princess Margarita and her husband come to mind). Therefore, to the family of King Michael as well as their supporters, it is perhaps not a purely academic matter.

I do agree with you that the chances of a restoration are more or less nil. Maybe it was a possibility in the 90s, but not now.

Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2010, 09:04:36 PM »
Serious question, not a rhetorical one, has Maria Vladimirovna made any attempts to heal the rift?

How could she "heal the rift" even if she wanted to? She hardly asked for it, having inherited it from her father.

And, quite honestly, I don't think there is that much of a division in the family anymore. As Nicholas Romanov has gotten older, his attacks in the media on her and her rights have become less frequent. Should he and his brother die before Maria, then the dissenting voices in the family against the Grand Duchess will effectively disappear.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2010, 09:53:07 PM »
I agree with Benjamin; there is not much  have a "rift" about now. That is really old news and getting older as these guys die off. Who really cares anymore?
 As with CP Margarita,  GD Maria devouts her time and efforts to  good work, there is no ploitical ambition.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2010, 11:44:18 PM »
I agree with Benjamin; there is not much  have a "rift" about now. That is really old news and getting older as these guys die off. Who really cares anymore?
 As with CP Margarita,  GD Maria devouts her time and efforts to  good work, there is no ploitical ambition.


Robert,
I think you will find that the Grand Duchess does have ambitions on the restoration of the Monarchy,whether to herself or to her son George.

She has publicly stated that it is up to the Russian people, but organizations do exist throughout the world who are working on her behalf, both within and without Russia. ie the Russian Nobles Assoaciation and sections of the Russian Church.
She is doing charitable work, which is one way for her name to remain in the media, although not as much as CP Aleaxander and his wife CP Katherine.(of Serbia,) mind you, her circle of friends/donors is not as large as the Serbian one!

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Fear God.
Honour the king.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2010, 03:09:20 AM »
'How could she "heal the rift" even if she wanted to? She hardly asked for it, having inherited it from her father.'

Clearly she did not start the rift, but it would hardly be unreasonable to ask her to attempt some bridge-building. Has she done any?

Ann

Offline richard_1990

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2010, 04:42:47 AM »
Quote from: Kalafrana
I think it is the arrogance of the 'We are the only real Romanovs,' which gets up my nose, but this is an entirely personal view.
This was the position of Emperor Nicholas II. Only dynasts are Romanovs, non-dynasts are have no right to the name.. re-read Greg_King's posts. However, whether you recognize the existence of dyansts is the key variable in the OP of this thread.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2010, 10:56:58 AM »
Then I nstand corrected, IofJ.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2010, 08:52:42 PM »
Just to be provocative here, what is Maria Vladimirovna doing living off her relations? Why doesn't she get a job?

Maria Vladimirovna does not live off her relations.

For many many years (as in, from the time of Grand Duke Vladimir's marriage to Leonida until sometime in the 1990s), the Romanovs were supported to an extent by the fortune that Leonida's eldest daughter, Helene, inherited from her father, Sumner Moore Kirby. However, Leonida and her two daughters (and grandson) no longer live together as they did in the past, and Helene's money is not being used for the "upkeep" of her younger sister or nephew.

After leaving Oxford, Grand Duchess Maria assisted her mother in a museum on Imperial Russia that they created at Ker Argonid in St Briac. Then, once she married, she worked for designer Nelsy Chelala in Paris. Maria decided to leave that job after she gave birth to her son. Plus, on top of just entering motherhood, her marriage finally collapsed, so she probably had her hands full.

Offline Margot

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Re: taking away the family name
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2010, 09:37:03 PM »
If hypothetically...George were to rebel and marry a woman for love who happened to be 'God forbid' a commoner...would his mother take away his right to use the Romanov name?

I guess it wouldn't matter really though would it.....as he could always revert to being known as George Prinz von Preussen or however Hohenzollerns are called these days on official documentation couldn't he? I mean do the Hohenzollern family have a surname they use! I remember all that stuff ages ago on another thread about the Hohenzollerns being allowed to use the von Preussen as a technical courtesy to get round thee problem of being Prices and Princess in a Republic that no longer technically recognized such titles as such!

Anyway I do wonder about what MV would do if George did the unspeakable........!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 09:40:13 PM by Margot »