Author Topic: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news  (Read 134768 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #120 on: November 18, 2009, 09:15:47 AM »
I do not think they are necessarily  "ugly"... I rather like the avante-garde architecture.. And as they are away from the historical centre of St.P., why not? Worse has been built, and not just in Russia! I would like to think that the environment is being duly respected- these are just speculative drawings, after all, reality could be much different in the results. It is a business school campus, after all and  the dacha is being restored so there is positive effect. And, St.P. has a plethora of palaces  some of which are in far more need of resoration. Oranienburg comes to  mind, as does Gatchina. Far more historical importance in them.
 I admit, I am not familiar with this one, or even just where it is, I may have passed it and just not noticed.
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Offline richard_1990

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2009, 06:47:59 AM »
And, St.P. has a plethora of palaces  some of which are in far more need of resoration. Oranienburg comes to  mind, as does Gatchina. Far more historical importance in them.
agreed, there is a horrendous amount of palaces in SP. a minor amount of them have been turned into something of use - the hermitage already uses 4 or 5 ( i think?) palaces for the art collections etc.

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #122 on: November 19, 2009, 09:52:00 AM »
Yes I know what you mean. but this is an historically sensitive area, and although they are restoring the main house, I do think the new buildings are hideous and that they could have been a bit more sensitive to the existing buildings. ( My exclusive opinion ) !

If we take the Konstantinovsky Palace as an example of what is done in the name of restoration, well !
Some of us share the opinion that they are doing something positive to save the buildings, and some of us do feel that they could be more circumspect. I hope the house does not end up looking like a Las Vegas casino like the Strelna 'restoration'.

Unfortuanately when historical buildings are restored for public use, you almost always end up with a horror. It happens all over the world.   


 
 

   

Offline Tatyana

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #123 on: November 19, 2009, 11:37:13 PM »
I believe this builiding is either part of the old Barracks of the Horse Guards building, bodered by the Konno-Gvardeiski Per., Morskaya & Blagovyeshtchenskaya, or
it may be the Barracks of the Marines, bordered by Morskaya, Kryukov Canal & Blagovyeshtchenskaya, at the foot of the old Church of the Annunciation.
Does anyone have any updates?

TATYANA

Offline Tatyana

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #124 on: November 19, 2009, 11:40:12 PM »
Oh dear, I was trying to reply to the post of 12/29/2008 about the relocation of the Naval Museum from the Bourse, to a building that the poster could not identify for sure.

TATYANA

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2009, 06:56:51 AM »
Quote
If we take the Konstantinovsky Palace as an example of what is done in the name of restoration, well !
Some of us share the opinion that they are doing something positive to save the buildings, and some of us do feel that they could be more circumspect. I hope the house does not end up looking like a Las Vegas casino like the Strelna 'restoration'.
I've never understood the criticism of the Strelna Palace restoration. Do you have any pre-revolution images/paintings of the palace to contrast against? once the various vegetation on the palace premises grows substantially it will look quite beautiful in my opinion.

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2009, 12:12:26 PM »
As for me, I must say that I do not particularly appreciate the architecture chosen for the campus but it's probably the price to pay for the restoration of the area: palaces and gardens included.

There is an element I like in the project is the modern use that is done of orangerie groves in university housing, the overall look is interesting but in truth I would have liked a more "classic"  architecture which contrast less with the other buildings.

But when you see the drawings of the new Marinksi, Okta tower, or palace of dance of Eiffman or Alla Pugacheva theater buildings planned to be located in the city center (or at a close proximity) close to monuments of historical importance then the campus buildings shock me at least, he presents the advantage of being situated in the countryside

Palaces in Mikailovskaya after works of restoration










News buildings

The Orangerie










Okta tower


Marinski 2


Alla Pugacheva theater, on Vasilyevski Island



http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/9156/


Palace of danse, a real architectural wreck  (expected to be situated in front of the winter palace, on Vassilievski island)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfabqONojo

Fortunately, a large majority of  inhabitants of St Petersburg are against the construction of the Tower Okta, there is massive demonstration  and the construction project faced the  justice, on top of that, the Minister of Culture Mr. Avdeev  is also against this construction. As for Marinski 2 and the palace of dance, according to newspapers this two projects  will be resubmitted to a committee of architects to improve their appearance, but nothing is sure yet.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 12:27:17 PM by Vassili_Vorontsoff »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2009, 01:37:50 PM »
I can see your objections Vasslii _V.   Personally, I am fine with the campus, but that tower! What an abomnation for St. P.!  Especially at that location. It belongs more in Moscow, I would say. [which is more like NYC in my mind] I can't see why St.P. would even need such a tower. Who is going to occupy it? It is so out-of-scale for the city itself. And the proposed [I hope that is all it is] Marinsky theatre...well, I am a fan of modern, innovative architure, but that looks uninspiring and very out-of-place as well. So we are of  the same mind about those projects. I am not familiar with the last project, but in the right location, out is a modern  area, it could work.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline ArchitectCS

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2009, 01:46:44 PM »
I agree with Vassia about the campus.  Too bad the new buildings won't be historically sensitive, but a least they are restoring the palace and outbuildings.  It's a gorgeous complex and it's nice to know that it will at least be used instead of being allowed to crumble.

I am not a fan of the Okta tower at all, and the Alla Pugacheva Theatre looks terrible, but I have to admit I kind of like the Palace of Dance.  Our modern architecture of today is radically different from most historic styles, but at some level we need to let our cities evolve.  Saint Petersburg started out as a baroque city and ended up having lots of neoclassical architecture in it.   And then in the 20th century you saw art nouveau as well.  It gives the city character and makes you appreciate the different styles and the passage of time.  Wouldn't it be a shame if there were no 19th century buildings of note in Saint Petersburg?  And wouldn't it be a shame if, 200 years from now, there were no 21st century buildings of note there?

Here is some more on the palace of dance.

http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/9/view/7046/unstudio-dance-palace-st-petersburg.html

Personally, I think the interior is very dynamic and even has a somewhat baroque sensibility to it (in form only, of course).  I admit that the exterior is jarring, but perhaps that could be modified.

As an aside, I don't think any city ever did it better than Paris.  The area of La Defense is brilliant-make almost a whole other modern city next to the historic one.  They are far enough apart to compliment each other without competing.  I wish other cities would follow their example.

I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here, because I'd like nothing better than to have Saint Petersburg be nothing more than a beautifully restored historic city that never changes.  But we need to look to the future as well.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2009, 02:28:56 PM »
Thank you very much. From these pictures,  I would say the dance theatre could work nicely, once the populations gets used to it. St. P. is a wonderful city for the arts,  more so than many and I think they value placing them in   respectful venues.
 It is interesting, I have been watching London evolve architecturally for over 30 years and  some of what was  roundly condemned in  planning is nor considered iconic and  almost loved. The Gherkin comes to mind, the new City Hall and  especially the [new] London library, which seemed to take forever to build but is a beautiful  building. Here in SF,  the famous Transamerica Pyramid was considered obscene when built, which is funny as it replaced an area of slums and firetraps. Now it is also quite a post card icon of our City. There are ways for new to blend with old, evolve is the  correct word.
 However, that Otka tower just  does not fit, in my opinion. I could very well be wrong and after all, I do not live there so it up to the  citizens of the city to decide whether or not to embrace it.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Vassili_Vorontsoff

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2009, 10:40:49 AM »
I understand the objections and indeed I am not against any form of modern architecture that would not make sense every architecture even classic one have once been modern before being considered as a part of a tradition...I appreciate the works done in the new Reichstag with modern elements or in the Biritish museum, at opera of Lyon, the tower at St Mary axe by Forster however everyone of those projects has a balance sense between new moderns forms and old structure to my mind...


 To the palace of dance, which I regret (outside of its location) it is that the builiding planned could not have a sens with the rest of the building cliose to him (winter palace would be close). For me it is primarily a commercial architecture, which does not last, that does not endure, often such building are cosntructed for 20-30 years, the building does not fit into an architectural tradition of the city (whereas it was the wish of Eifmann for his palace).

It could be built in Montreal and London that it would not change anything, so that when we see the old building Marinski, it seems clear that its architectural codes pertain only to the city,  they are a part of his spirirt... I have some difficulties  to express everything with such a poor english in English, I would like to say so many things without being able to say them...I hope some understand my sayings...!


Vassia

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2009, 05:40:03 AM »
As Prince Charles so aptly put it when referring to a modern extension to an art museum in London, ( I forget which one)......Perhaps the British Museum.  "It is like a carbuncle on the face of dear and beloved friend"

I would say the same about the Okta tower. It spoils the City scape, and cannot be compared to La Defense in Paris, which has been placed sensitively away from the historical sector of the City. The same cannot be said for what they doing in St Petersburg. Many beautiful old buildings in Moscow have been demoslished by greedy developers, and I think it has ruined the city completely.  Developers tend to "whittle" away at a
city, resulting in a wake up call when it is too late.

I live in what was until recently one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Unfortuanately money, green and property developers, together with their normal corruption have had the upper hand and the city has been allowed to slide into a horror. If one building like the Okta Tower is allowed, you can be quite sure others will follow. It will set a precident for the erection of similar buildings. Future generations will look at these buildings and wonder what the city fathers were smoking when they allowed them to spoil the whole city.

Imagine trying to build something like this in Venice ? ( If they could ).

Progress is one thing, but insensitivity and disrepect for the history and architecture of a city is another.

The river, Public Buildings, Palaces and the overall layout and history is what makes St Petersburg so special.
Otherwise it would just be another ugly city on the side of a mosquito infested swamp, wont it ?   
 

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2009, 05:52:38 AM »
Dear Richard 1990,
In response.

There are many beautiful pictures on this forum of the Konstantinovsky Palace, both exterior and interior, I think they are under "Palaces in and around St Petersburg" ( That is of course if they have not been removed) Also some very sad ones of neglect by the Soviets. It was probably saved in the nick of time. But has ended up looking just like the sort of building it was redisigned as, a conference centre. 

But it really was a most beautiful building, with exquisite interiors, and gardens. Perhaps once the new gardens "take off' it will soften the overall effect.

It has always been a favourite of mine. So perhaps I was expecting a higher level of sensitivity with regard to the restoration.

Now I am hoping and praying for the Alexander Palace.

I am glad it has been restored, but perhaps if it was just done up as a residence for Putin, and not a 'show place' it would have looked more like it did before.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2009, 10:39:11 AM »
Pavlov, I do not know which beautiful city you live in,  but mine is San Francisco, where we have a new development plan in a  very distressed and that is long overdue.  Some are raising arms over plans for new skyscape rs, but what do they do to harm us?  First, they have to be paid for, which is not likely anytime soon and they are improving and area  direly in need of it.  In my opinion, they enhance the skyline of  the Downtown area and do not  affect the  neighbourhoods, which are  precious to us.
  Prince Charles:  in my view, his calls are  very misplaced.  The project [among several he has commented upon] you mention might be the   new proposed  building in Chelsea, next to the famous hospital and the annual garden show, which is probably the only time he goes near the place.
   I freely admit  liking modern architecture innovations,  however, I cannot see any place in St.P. for that dreadful Otka tower.
 And the AP itself? for Putin?  I doubt that very much.  Frankly, I thought the whole thing should have been bulldozed years ago.  What is it being restored as anyway?  Alexander i and his era?  Nicholas I, etc.? or a shrine to N&A ?  Their rooms were not exactly earth-shateeringly  statements of the ars decoratif.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: Restorations and renovations in St.Petersburg - news
« Reply #134 on: November 24, 2009, 06:13:43 AM »
Robert, I was not making a connection between Putin and the Alexander Palace. Thank God there is no connection. We would be facing another Las Vegas Conference Centre.

Everyone I think is interested to see what they are going to do with the interior. I personally think it is going to be a mixture of styles, a bit from each era, as they have to attract the tourists and their money. Which bit of N & A they will do is anyones guess. Personally I dont think the average tourist gives a hoot about Alexandra's mauve boudoir. So lets see what brilliant ideas they are going to come up with to sell the Alexander Palace as an attraction to the tourists of the world.

I do not have a problem with modern architecture, I have a problem with ugliness, and personally I think these buildings are hideous. None of them have a place in the area they are intended for. That "birds nest' lookalike building is frightening.

San Francisco is a beautiful City with a character all of its own, and already has many skycrapers etc., but imagine taking it and placing it virtually in the middle of St Petersburg.
That I have a problem with.

The building Prince Charles was referring to is actually the National Gallery, and the "carbuncle" has been there for a number of years already.