Author Topic: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold  (Read 26395 times)

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Offline Elizabeth

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2005, 11:05:23 AM »
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Annie wrote: Actually, Michael was the only one never found.

Actually, I think I read somewhere that Michael's body (along with his secretary, who was killed with him) was destroyed in a "furnace" at a nearby iron works plant (or something like that!).

It makes me wonder if Michael's body was destroyed in that fashion, why didn't they destroy N&A's bodies the same way?   ???

Offline KatieAnn

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2005, 09:15:57 AM »
Elizabeth,

It could be the bodies of the RF weren't destroyed in the same way as Michael's because there wasn't enough time.  It takes around 15 minutes to reduce a body from corpse state to ash using a modern-day crematorium.  I don't know if what was available in the early 1900s would have been either hot enough or able to cope with the number of bodies.  Remember the White Army was heading towards Ekaterinburg so the Reds would have wanted rid of the bodies ASAP.

I've read File on The Tsar and I thought it was an interesting and informative book.  But, all along, I don't remember believing that the RF escaped; I was willing (and maybe even hoping) to be proved wrong.  But time and DNA evidence seems to have done the job.
Kathleen

Offline AGRBear

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2005, 12:07:06 PM »
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Annie wrote: Actually, Michael was the only one never found.

Actually, I think I read somewhere that Michael's body (along with his secretary, who was killed with him) was destroyed in a "furnace" at a nearby iron works plant (or something like that!).

It makes me wonder if Michael's body was destroyed in that fashion, why didn't they destroy N&A's bodies the same way?   ???


Do you remember where you read this about Michael's body being destroyed in a "furnace"?

From everything I've read,  the bodies [Tsar Michael and Johsson] were left by a road covered with brush by his murderers.  These bodies were never recovered and seem to have vanished.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2005, 12:09:16 PM »
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Reported Death of the Uncrown Tsar Michael II Romanov of Russia

p. 630-1 in A LIFELONG PASSION, Nicholas and Alexandra, Their Own Story by Maylunas and Mironenko give us "A.V. Markov [the assassin] - 13-14 / 26-7 June-Perm".

Listed as those who were part of the executions were: (1) A.V. Markov, (2) Zhuzhgov, (3) Kolpashikov, (4) Ivanchenko.....

12 July 1918: In  phaetons [carriages]  these men drove Michael Romanov and Johnson his secretary out of Perm to about 5 verst from Motovilicha .... a verst passed pass the kerosene depot, right turn into woods and about another 100-130 feet....

Markov claims to have shot both men

They did not bury the bodies but left them by the road after covering them with branches.....

Far as I know,  the  bodies/ bones were never found of either victim.

AGRBear

PS


Under the photo is written the names of the shooters of Michael:

Alexander Markov
Zhuzhgov
Myasnikov
Ivancenko
Kolpashchikov
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2005, 11:50:07 PM »
Selective sources notwithstanding,  King & Wilson, FOTR pg 207 mentions the furnace cremation.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline amonvanroark

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2005, 02:07:01 PM »
Greetings, everyone. I was recently linked to this site, and find it very interesting and informative. A number of years ago I posessed a copy of "The File on the Tsar", but now have lost track of its whereabouts. Each chapter in this book was prefaced by a quotation. The quotation I need information on, if memory serves me correct, goes something like this "Truth? Truth? In the entire history of the great affairs of men....". I would greatly appreciate it if someone who owns this book or has access to it could post in reply the entire quotation, as well as the name of the individual who made it. Many thanks in advance.

Offline Rachael89

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2005, 04:04:40 PM »
There's a opening quote to the book that reads:

"Truth: An ingenious compound of desirability of appearance."
-Ambrose Bierce: The devil's dictionary

Chapter 17: The Claimants:

"To hell with the truth. As the history of the world proves truth has no bearing on anything."
(Eugine O' Neill)

I beleive the quote you are looking for is one of these!

Hope this helps

Rachael

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Offline amonvanroark

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2005, 04:59:00 PM »
Hi Rachael. The quotation I was looking for is the second you listed. Thank you ever so much. I see there are a lot of helpful people around here, just from reading some of the threads. I know I will enjoy the time I spend at this forum. :D

Offline Rachael89

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2005, 02:40:39 PM »
I'm glad I could help you ;D! Enjoy your time here!

Rachael
It's not fair!

Offline imperial angel

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2006, 10:58:21 AM »
This book is really foolish, as is all such books..it violates the dictums of common sense!

Offline Belochka

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2006, 06:09:17 PM »
It is rather sad that a number of writers in the west prefer to spend their efforts creating Russian myths.

>:(


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Offline imperial angel

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2006, 08:50:53 AM »
Agree with last post! ;)

Offline ordino

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2006, 03:07:34 PM »
Hello from Spain,
I read de The File...edition 1976, 20 years ago and just two years ago the 2002 edition, and I believe in both there is a mistery about what happened in the city of Ekaterimburg. I don“t read  Peter Kurt“s novels (I will), but this author  has the same idea, and the last, the ADN test, just the perfect justification for closed de history of Romanov fate
I“m reading actually (my lecture  in English is better than may write) Steinberg and khrustalėv`s: The Fall of the Romanovs, and again they said: .."the evidende that the whole family war killed is problematic"Thank you very much in advance. :)

Offline Kimberly

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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2006, 03:12:48 PM »
Hello Ordino, your written English is beautiful. If you are interested, go over to the Survivor threads, there will be lots to interest you there ;) Regards Kim.
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Re: FILE ON THE TSAR, by Summers & Mangold
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2007, 09:08:48 PM »
I have this edition of the book and there is a postcript in which it seems that Summers and Mangfold admit they may have been wrong. But even so this book was way ahead of its time. These guys destroyed the Sokolov report way before the discovery of the bones and executioner's reports did. It's still a good read after all.