Author Topic: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles  (Read 52104 times)

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Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2010, 06:04:14 PM »
I explain that it is the Russian word for emperor

I don't expect you to confuse your pupils with such fine nuances, but that is a truth with some modifications: Compare e.g. Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich's play "Царь Иудейский", "The King of the Jews / The Jewish King / The King of Judea." He clearly meant Iesus Christus Rex Iudæoreum, not the кесар Август, Kesar Avgust, the emperor referred to in the Russian Christmas Gospel. "Tsar" is a rather unique title, difficult to translate, just like stadhouder. :-)

Coming to think of it, the Dutch situation vis-à-vis the Holy Roman Empire is a bit like the Russian in relation with the Byzantine Empire - a gradual self-liberation and elevation, title-wise:
Counts of Holland - Grand Princes of Moscow,
Grand Dukes of the West and their (Hereditary) Stadtholders -  Tsars of the Third Rome and finally:
Sovereign Prince and King - Autocrat and Sovereign Emperor

As opposed to "apparently eternal kingdoms" like England, France, Denmark, Poland, Hungary etc.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:19:55 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline TimM

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2010, 11:40:39 AM »
I've seen it spelled both ways in various books.
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Offline Превед

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2013, 04:05:28 PM »
A similar issue occurs when spelling a name of morganatic (in)famy: Zarnekau (ancient Slavic name deried from чёрный, black, and pronounced /'tsarnekau/ in German) in Russian. Should it be spelled orthographically, as Зарнекау, or phonetically as Царнекау?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 04:23:29 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: TSAR VS CZAR
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2013, 03:59:51 PM »
The word for "outside of Russia" in ROCOR = Zarubezhnaya.

Alternatively and officially evidently also Русская православная церковь заграницей - zagranitsey - as in граница / granitsa = German Grenze (= border) - evidently a Slavic loanword (seen in the East German placename Granitz, which like most German -itz names not surprisingly are feminine!) How marvellous isn't that, that German (and thereby the Scandinavian languages) borrowed that word from Slavic! Think of all those Germanic - Slavic borders... from the Dark Age Limes Saxoniæ in Holstein to Российско-норвежская граница - den norsk-russiske grensen (the Russo-Norwegian border) by the Barents Sea - the world's most peaceful border between a major power and a small country - undisturbed since it was established by Bernadotte / Carl XIV Johan and Nicholas I in 1826.

Speaking of German and Slavic and the thread's cæsarian topic it's funny how misleading the царица / tsaritsa - Zarin / czarina / tsarina confusion would be applied to other Russian words: Pодина / rodina means nation, fatherland, motherland, homeland while (Бого)родица / (Bogo)roditsa means (God-)bearer (Theotokos / Mother of God).
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 04:03:24 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: The Tsar's Titles
« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2014, 04:07:49 PM »
In my effort to list all the provinces, cities, etc., I forgot to add the official introduction to the emperor's titles to my post.

God's Enlightened and Merciful Mediator, We Nikolai the Second, Emperor and Autocrat....................

I hope that my translation is accurate as I had great difficulty finding the exact words in my dictionary.


David

A more recent related question from another thread on the Forum:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17835.msg535240#msg535240
инок Николай

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2014, 04:39:16 PM »
To remind people, this is what the Imperial Government of Russia had to say on the subject:

The title of the Russian Monarch is Emperor and Imperial Majesty. Originally the Russian Sovereigns bore the title of grand dukes. With the uniting of Russia under the dominion of Moscow, the title of Tsar began to be used, and was, definitely adopted by Ivan IV in 1547. This remained the title of the Russian Sovereigns unil 1721. In 1721, by the peace of Nishtadt, the Great Northern war, carried on so successfully by Peter the Great, was concluded. In celebration of this event, the Senat and Synod resolved t beg Peter I to accept the titles of Emperor, Great, and Father of his Country. A supreme Ukas was issued to that effect, on November 11, 1721, which gave rise to a protest on the part of many European states, as it placed the Russian Sovereign on the same level with the Emperor of Germany, the sole Monarch of that rank then existing. First to acknowledge the new title were Prussia, the Netherlands and Sweden, last - Poland in 1764.

- Statesman's Handbook for Russia
1896 - By the Chancery of the Committee of Ministers, St. Petersburg


Offline Превед

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2014, 04:45:28 PM »
This remained the title of the Russian Sovereigns unil 1721. In 1721, by the peace of Nishtadt

Shame on the Imperial Government for transliterating directly from (German in) Cyrillic instead of using the Swedish form Nystad. ( Uusikaupunki in Finnish.) :-)

Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2015, 05:05:08 AM »
In celebration of this event, the Senat and Synod resolved t beg Peter I to accept the titles of Emperor, Great, and Father of his Country. A supreme Ukas was issued to that effect, on November 11, 1721, which gave rise to a protest on the part of many European states, as it placed the Russian Sovereign on the same level with the Emperor of Germany, the sole Monarch of that rank then existing. First to acknowledge the new title were Prussia, the Netherlands and Sweden, last - Poland in 1764.

King Władysław IV of Poland claimed from 1610 and onwards, in competition with the first Romanov tsar, to be not only "elected Grand Duke of Moscow", but sometimes even "obrany wielki czar moskiewski" - elected grand tsar of Moscow"! Note the contemporary Polish spelling czar - today car.

Source: Titles of European hereditary rulers - Poland

All untill Poland was finally dismantled in 1795, the Kings of Poland claimed to be Grand Dukes of Kiev, Smolensk, Severia and Chernigov, territories that had been lost to Russia in the 17th century, even of Russia, although this "Russia" referred to an ill-defined Red / Black / White Rus in modern Ukraine - Belarus - southeastern Poland.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 05:10:04 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Nemos

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2015, 02:35:18 AM »
На каких фото Император на яхте Александрия, а не на Штандарте ?
Which photos Emperor yacht Alexandria, rather than on the Standard?
At Jacque of the gawk...
book-old.ru

Offline Nemos

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Re: Tsar vs. Czar and Nicholas's Full Titles
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2016, 10:52:18 AM »
http://geglov2.narod.ru/photo/
По Вырубовой фото на яхте Полярная Звезда. ..
By Vyrubova photos on a yacht Polar Star. ..
At Jacque of the gawk...
book-old.ru