Author Topic: The Paleys  (Read 270146 times)

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Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2006, 04:50:19 PM »
Does anyone know if Prince Vladimir Paley had any romantic interests?
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2006, 07:14:38 AM »
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The girls spent most of their childhood in Paris where their parents were in exile. They lived in Russia for a short time during WWI until they needed to escape the Bolsheviks in 1918. They fled via Finland, where they were eventually reunited with their mother, Princess Paley, and able to return to Paris.

Irina married her cousin, Prince Feodor Alexandrovich, which made her a niece by marriage to Nicholas and Alexandra. They had two children, Michael and Irina, and had descendants from both. By the way, when I read on another thread that there were no Paley descendants, I was going to point out that due to these descendants, that's not strictly true.

Natalia had a career as an actress and model, her last husband was a theatrical producer. I have heard from this man's family, and they arranged her funeral and burial. Natalia Paley had no children.


Are you sure that Feodor and Irina Paley had two childs ? I believed they had a only son, Michel, because in the Documentary "Mémoires d'éxil", Frederic Mitterrand never called to an another child of this couple.
Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline ukupeeter

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2006, 09:29:01 AM »
3h) Feodor (St.Petersburg 23 Dec 1898-Ascain, France 30 Nov 1968); m.Paris 21 May 1923 (div 1936) Pss Irina Paley (1903-1990)





1i) Pr Michael Romanov (b.Paris 4 May 1924); m.1st Paris 15 Oct 1958 (div 1992) Helga Staufenberger (b.Vienna 22 Aug1926); m.2d Josse 15 Jan 1994 Maria de las Mercedes Ustrell-Cabani (b.Hospitalet, Spain 26 Aug 1960)
 



1j) Pr Michael Romanov (Paris 31 Jul 1959-Mumbai, India 24 Jan 2001)
 



1k) [by Mercedes Ustrell-Cabani] Tatiana (b.Bayonne 21 Oct 1986); she was adopted by her paternal grandfather





2i) Pss Irene Romanov (b.Fontenay 7 May 1934); m.1st Biarritz 23 Dec 1955 (div 1959) Andre Jean Pelle (b.Biarritz 29 Nov 1923); m.2d Le Pin 26 Dec 1962 (div) Victor-Marcel Soulas (b.St.Méen-le-Grand 26 Aug 1938)
 



1j) Alain Pelle, b.Biarritz 19 Sep 1956; m.Monbahus 14 May 1983 Pascale Deletre
 



1k) Olivier Pelle, b.Biarritz May 1984

2k) Christophe Pelle, b.Biarritz 15 Feb 1987
 
 


2j) Joelle Soulas, b.Marseille 12 May 1966


Offline ukupeeter

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2006, 09:30:18 AM »
 Pss Irina Paley (Paris 21 Dec 1903-Biarritz 15 Nov 1990); m.1st Paris 4 Jun 1923 (div 1936) Feodor Pr of Russia (below); m.2d Biarritz 11 Apr 1950 Cte Hubert de Monbrison (St.Avertin, France 15 Aug 1892-château de St-Roch 14 Apr 1981)


Offline ukupeeter

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2006, 09:33:22 AM »
Pss Irene Romanov (b.Fontenay 7 May 1934) is a daugther of Cte Hubert de Monbrison, but legaly a daugther of Pr. Feodor Romanov

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #110 on: March 11, 2006, 10:19:24 AM »
I understand better now... Thanks for this precious precision !
Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline lancashireladandre

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #111 on: March 11, 2006, 11:52:00 AM »
Natalie Paley is often mentioned in the numerous biographies of Cole Porter with whom her second husband the impresario Jack Wilson was linked Professionally (& some say romantically).The Wilsons were certainly part of the Porter set.After Linda Lee Porter died Cole gave Natalie 2 sumpteous Multistone bracelets and a matching double clip from Cartier that had belonged to his wife.On his own death she inherited a portrait of herself which had hung in pride of place in the composers apartment in the Waldorf Towers...Natalie was said to be a serial binge drinker because of her husbands bi sexual adventures......

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #112 on: March 11, 2006, 01:08:12 PM »
Princess Natalie Paley, a beauty if ever there was one




Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline Svetabel

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2006, 01:48:50 AM »
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Does anyone know if Prince Vladimir Paley had any romantic interests?


Probably he had. Though I've never find out in books/articles related to him such info. Some extracts from his journals of 1917-1918 years are published in memories of his mother Olga Paley - there one can find only discourses about situation in Russia. :-/

Offline ukupeeter

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2006, 03:16:15 AM »
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No it was not  question of what you think...Michel was a perfect gentleman, this solution was due to material help towards Tatiana. I can't  say anything more about his son's very sad death for a father, because it was too recent... and we must respect on this forum private life of people who proved to be absolutely respectable to such an extent that they found "different" solutions to very difficult situations and who are still alive...



Prince Michael Feodorovich is not only a perfect gentelman  , he is a super-Romanov.

One his grandfather was Grand Duke Alexander Michailovich, another grandfather was Grand  Duke Paul Alexandrovich. And one grandmother was Grand Duchesse Ksenia Alexandrovna, daugther
of empror Alexander III.

Pr. Tatiana Romanova is so lucky! Michael Feodorovich is a perfect grandfather  .

Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2006, 09:40:31 AM »
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I would think that the title is extinct, as it was German and could not pass through women.


Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Maximilian »

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2006, 11:39:16 AM »
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Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.


Yes, the title was created for a woman.  But like other similar titles (Battenberg), it was created to avoid the embarassment of the woman and her children having no title at all.  Olga's daughters could have used the title, just like Julia Hauke's daughter Marie was Princess of Battenberg before she married.  Daughters would be expected to marry and their children would use whatever title the daughter married.  Unless there are special remainders of some kind, I don't know of any German title that can pass THROUGH a woman.  Irina's descendants are Romanovs, etc., not Paleys, and I guess they could claim the title but I think that claim would be suspect and tenuous.
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2006, 11:11:19 PM »
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Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.


I think there is some confusion between titles and styles. The reason Paul's second wife needed a style - a way of being addressed - is that her husband's Imperial name was not available to her due to the difference in their ranks. She could be neither HIH The Grand Duchess Paul nor Mrs. Romanov. Thus, the style of Countess Hohenfelson (not 1st Countess of) was given to her so that she could be known by some name. However, there was no title to be passed down the line to her descendants.

Her son by the Grand Duke was at that time legally still the son of her former husband, having been born before the divorce. Their daughters were still unborn. I have no idea what the Paley girls were called before they returned to Russia during WWI.

What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.

The daughters continued to be known by their Paley names and never used the Hohenfelson style of their mother, who died in 1929.

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2006, 08:47:07 AM »
Do you think that if Nicholas II had not welcomed them back to Russia and the Paley family remained in exile, that Vladimir, Irina, and Natalie would have been known as Count or Countess Hohenfelsen?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Christopher »
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Paleys
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2006, 08:49:06 AM »
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What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.


Thank you Lisa Davidson,
What about of the title of Prince Paley, was this a title or a style? If this is a princely title. Who is the current Prince Paley? The Romanov- Paley branch is not extinct and still they can also claim this title.