Author Topic: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy  (Read 29347 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 10:36:03 AM »
Marie of Hesse Darmstadt's paternity seems estabilished. How much did she know about her real father, did she realize? It seems she did, from what I've read here. I know in her lifetime this was fairly well known, although sometimes it was regarded more as a vicious rumour than anything else, when she became Empress consort of Russia. I don't suppose she had much to do with her real father in later life, given her position.

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 10:52:13 AM »
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Indeed lots of unanswered questions. Perhaps the answers are in the archives in Darmstadt or in the Mountbatten archives.


IF they were not permanently destroyed....
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2006, 11:15:55 AM »
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Marie of Hesse Darmstadt's paternity seems estabilished. How much did she know about her real father, did she realize? It seems she did, from what I've read here. I know in her lifetime this was fairly well known, although sometimes it was regarded more as a vicious rumour than anything else, when she became Empress consort of Russia. I don't suppose she had much to do with her real father in later life, given her position.

I agree, Marie's paternity does seem established.  Surely she suspected something abnormal about her upbringing, although with Wilhelmine dying early, who knows what she thought.  

Yes, from what I've read, it was fairly well known.  No one dared question or mention it to Alexander II, even though his own parents had questions before the marriage took place.  It was said that if the Grand Duke of Hesse claimed her as is own, and she was in the Almanach de Gotha, that that was all that mattered.
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2006, 12:06:14 PM »
Yes, one wonders what she thought. Perhaps she did not think overly much about things like that, and indeed it was her official paternity that mattered. I am sure her real paternity was not mentioned to Alexander II, although I'm sure he heard rumours. But appearances were all that mattered. I can't see her real father, given his rank and all the rumours, having much to do with her after she left for Russia.

Offline crazy_wing

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2006, 04:10:26 PM »
The issue of Marie's paternity was also brought up to Nicholas I, Alexander II's father.  Nicholas I was not bothered by it as he was also well awared that his grandfather from his father's side was not Peter III.  And hence, Marie is as legitimate as the romanovs.    

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2006, 11:44:25 AM »
Indeed, many of these kinds of things were true of many dynasties. And there were often rumpurs like this, true or not true about paternity. I read an article recently on paternity testing today. It seems that often the supposed father is not at all the real father there was even a percent of cases where this happens, I should look it up. But sometimes even when the supposed father is found out not to be, and the real father is located, the real father has no obligations in terms of financial things, it is the supposed father who is responsible, if a court rules so, because he has always been responsible, presumed to be the father.  So sometimes it is official paternity that matters.

Offline Steinecke

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2007, 09:24:39 AM »
I came across this website yesterday and I want to know if anyone can give me any input on an enigmatic family legend.

One of my ancestors, Johann Mathias Jahres (1807-1896), is said to have worked for Ludwig II and Wilhelmine as an athletic tutor for the younger children... Marie in particular.  Supposedly he taught her and her older siblings to ride a horse, handle a rifle, etc.  According to the legend, he had to flee Germany suddenly in 1831 after he became involved in a scandal.  One story is that he was caught in the bedroom with the Grand Duchess, another is that he killed someone after getting into a fight over a woman.  There was once a letter in the family that gave clues to what happened, but when a family friend translated the letter decades ago, he insisted that the letter be burned and the contents not be disclosed.

This story has been the source of a lot of speculation in my family over the years, and when I first read somewhere that Marie's paternity was in question, I thought Mathias might have had something to do with it.  Since then, I've learned that her father was almost certainly this Auguste von Senarclens de Grancy.

Since many of you seem well informed on the specifics of this family... have you come across any inkling of what may have happened to cause my ancestor to suddenly leave Germany, abandoning everything he'd known to start a new life in the US?

Offline Bsquared

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2007, 05:25:50 AM »
The Mountbattens do not deny this story.  Victoria Milford Haven and Louis Mountbatten both admitted it in print.  It probably did not matter much anyway, they had multiple ties to the Grand Dukes of Hesse through Victoria's father's side, and also through Grand Duchess Wilhelmine's maternal side. 

DNA testing could prove it today.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2007, 04:07:50 AM »
The archives in Darmstadt preserve 10 letters from August to Grand Duchess Wilhelmine. But I'd be very surprised if they'd contain anything interesting...
Meine Kaiserin

Offline Paola

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2008, 02:56:24 AM »
Does anyone know where is buried Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy?

Offline VN

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2008, 03:55:12 AM »
I was told by a reliable source that he was buried in Jugenheim, but there is no Grave/Tombstone left to visit.

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2010, 04:24:44 PM »

Now that I have read the letters from Wilhelmine to her husband I really doubt the truth of that story.

First of all: the correspondence is huge and dates from 1801 until 6 months before her death. Even in the last she writes about how much she misses him (Ludwig II.) and she writes much about the children, about their calling him "Papa" etc.

Sounds pretty unlikely that she would done so if they would not have been his own. She also mentions Grancy and it seems he was with her when she travelled (which was his job after all). He also seems to have been sort of tutor for the eldest sons.

Fact is that the Grand Ducal couple traveled not together most time. We know as a fact that Ludwig II. had mistresses (there are even personally written documents about some).
Wilhelmine - a highly intelligent and eloquent woman - seems not to be guilty.
Meine Kaiserin

Offline Paola

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2010, 11:59:26 PM »
Thomas, where did you read the letters of Wilhelmine to her husband? Are they published?

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2010, 06:49:27 AM »
I read them in the archive........
Meine Kaiserin

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Auguste von Senarclens - Grancy
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2010, 11:10:17 PM »
I don't have any opinion on the subject (who was the father of Empress Maria A.) as I didn't learn German sources, rumours are always rumours and personally I don't care who was a real ancestor of Alexander III, f.e. I don't have anything against Wilhelmine either.
But I often don't believe in correspondence... people can lie and play-act even in the letters to relatives and loved ones. Especially if they want peace and calmness in the family.