Author Topic: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier  (Read 93430 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2006, 01:27:21 PM »
Quote

....[in pat]...

Now, let's see....
FS, according to testimonies from Felix Schanzkowski and Gertrude Ellerik, spoke good German and a little Polish. She did not understand Russian, nor did she speak it.
AA spoke faulty German with a Russian accent when she first appeared on the scene. Among the Berlin police she was known as "die unbekannte Russin" (the unknown Russian woman.) A note in the bulletin of the Dalldorf Asylum stated that she conversed in Russian with the sisters nursing her. Nurse Erna Bucholz stated that AA spoke Russian like a native in 1920. Later, in America, both her cousin Xenia and Nina confirmed that she could speak Russian. A perfectly acceptable Russian from the point of view of St. Petersburg society. In 1938 she was using Russian freely with Professor Rudnev and Albert Coyle, an American colleague of Edward Fallows. But when the Nazis became interested in her case, she shut herself in her apartment, refusing to see her friends and refused to speak Russian anymore. nswered back in French, with perfect accent.

.....Kind regards
Chat Noir

More information on AA's Russian.

Thanks.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2006, 04:29:01 PM »
Sigh. I'm so disappointed. Bear for a few hours today I actually thought you were going to FINALLY be fair and objective to both sides with your posts, but I was wrong. You only want to dig up stuff that helps AA's case. You say you don't believe her, then prove it! Let's see all you can dig up and post AGAINST her being AN, and in favor of her being a fraud. I challenge you.

Offline pentetorri

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2006, 06:39:52 PM »
Quote
Sigh. I'm so disappointed. Bear for a few hours today I actually thought you were going to FINALLY be fair and objective to both sides with your posts, but I was wrong. You only want to dig up stuff that helps AA's case. You say you don't believe her, then prove it! Let's see all you can dig up and post AGAINST her being AN, and in favor of her being a fraud. I challenge you.

I have been away for a while from the Survivor posts, and I see things have worsened. Ms. Annie I consider you are taking this too serious, and you are going to extremes. Bear is a wonderful and well informed poster in many threads and you are just rambling all the time with few or no sources and just repeating yourself over and over.

I read your post asking the Forum Administrator to lock the Survivor post. Why on earth? Are you running out of steam? If you are so much stressed by these posts why don't you move along to other threads. You could try colouring pictures  ;), that will help you to calm down a little bit. And leave people like Bear and other posters to discuss armoniously this interesting subject.

We got the idea you don't believe AA!!! But, that gives you no right to ban these threads or impose your beliefs .I find no reason on earth why you are so determined to continue discussing a subject you don't believe. What a waste of energy!!. Take my advice do some colouring ........ ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pentetorri »

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2006, 06:57:19 PM »
Well, miss Annie, I do profusely apologize for using so much "hearsay" and "he said, she said" in my posts. But, you see, I was not there, and therefore rely on testimonies and court records etc. etc. to form an opinion of the case. Of course, when you state Anastasia's ability to pick up accents as a FACT by reading it in "File on the Tsar", and Marie's finger being squeezed as a FACT because Olga said so, that's a different story. I think it is called pure, unadulterated hypocrisy. The thing is, my dear, you cannot have it both ways. Just because something goes against your belief, does not make it invalid. And just because it agrees with you, does not necessesarily make it valid. We are all looking for the solution to the mysteries by examining the facts, or what has been presented to us as facts, from those who witnessed the goings-on. All mindless speculation, categorical denials, accusations of lying just make you and your ilk seem silly to me. And your disappointment in Bear's repeat of my post just shows me how very, very biased you are.
Also, for your edification, I do not quote from FOT. Simply because I do not have it in my collection, and it has been many years since I read it. My sources are as follows:
Roland Krug von Nidda: Ich, Anastasia. erzähle.
Hans Nogly: Anastasia: Ein Frauenschicksal wie kein Anderes
Peter Kurth: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson
Robert K. Massie: The Romanovs
John Klier and Helen Mingay: The Quest for Anastasia
I also have several other books on the subject, but the above are my main sources.

Kind regards
Chat Noir

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2006, 08:06:47 PM »
Quote


 just repeating yourself over and over.

As are all the people quoting "Riddle of Anastasia" and "File on the Tsar."

Quote
I read your post asking the Forum Administrator to lock the Survivor post. Why on earth?

Did you bother to check the date on my post? Did you see it's about six months old? At that time, this place had become a complete farce. It's not the same way now that it was, though it never really changes, at the time I wrote that things were getting pretty extreme. It's now outdated, and your response is out of line.


Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2006, 08:08:15 PM »
Quote

 Just because something goes against your belief, does not make it invalid.

Right back atcha.

ChatNoir

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2006, 08:17:11 PM »
Quote
Quote

 Just because something goes against your belief, does not make it invalid.

Right back atcha.

I  wholeheartedly agree. That's why I am trying to get you and your ilk to present more FACTS, whether they go against my opinion or not, and if they do, it will be up to me to dig up more evidence and defend my position. Or admit defeat. That's what makes a forum like this fun.
And now off to Palm Springs. A sybarite must have his time in the sun. In the meantime, can anyone explain to me how AA was able to identify Lieutenant Arapov? I'll check in again on Sunday and see the answers.

Kind regards
Chat Noir

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2006, 10:44:06 PM »
Quote

I  wholeheartedly agree. That's why I am trying to get you and your ilk to present more FACTS, whether they go against my opinion or not, and if they do, it will be up to me to dig up more evidence and defend my position.

Your 'facts' are very questionable and unverifiable. All you have are a bunch of people saying this and that.  But really, it is all so ridiculous for you to demand 'facts' when YOU deny the fact that the DNA proved AA was not AN. So you really have nothing!

Quote
Or admit defeat.

Defeat??!! You have GOT to be kidding. Um, pssst, haven't you heard? The tests are back, she's not AN, you have already lost.

Quote
And now off to Palm Springs. A sybarite must have his time in the sun.

Well, we're not all rich, you know.

 
Quote
In the meantime, can anyone explain to me how AA was able to identify Lieutenant Arapov?

One thing I wonder a lot about this, and the 'pockets' guy, is how this was arranged. It doesn't make any sense. Who found these people and brought them to her, and were they really anonymous? To me there seems a big chance that, if it was known who they were ahead of time, that she knew, and it was all a set up. Somebody told her, or the person in question was involved too. But either way, we know SOMEBODY told her, because, you do know, she wasn't AN.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2006, 12:24:01 AM »
Just a note - a person does not need to be rich to go to Palm Springs. In fact, the warmer the weather gets, the more the hotel rates go down.

Offline Tania+

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2006, 01:18:46 AM »
Thanks Lisa, I needed a laugh after all of the above  !!!

Tatiana+


Quote
Just a note - a person does not need to be rich to go to Palm Springs. In fact, the warmer the weather gets, the more the hotel rates go down.
TatianaA


Offline Tania+

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2006, 01:22:30 AM »
Yo, ChatNoir, :)

Excellent sources! Love your facts. The more facts the better it is! I see your as well fluent in German.
 ;) Facts are better than she said, he said, or even 'perhaps' ....

Tatiana+


Quote
Well, miss Annie, I do profusely apologize for using so much "hearsay" and "he said, she said" in my posts. But, you see, I was not there, and therefore rely on testimonies and court records etc. etc. to form an opinion of the case. Of course, when you state Anastasia's ability to pick up accents as a FACT by reading it in "File on the Tsar", and Marie's finger being squeezed as a FACT because Olga said so, that's a different story. I think it is called pure, unadulterated hypocrisy. The thing is, my dear, you cannot have it both ways. Just because something goes against your belief, does not make it invalid. And just because it agrees with you, does not necessesarily make it valid. We are all looking for the solution to the mysteries by examining the facts, or what has been presented to us as facts, from those who witnessed the goings-on. All mindless speculation, categorical denials, accusations of lying just make you and your ilk seem silly to me. And your disappointment in Bear's repeat of my post just shows me how very, very biased you are.
Also, for your edification, I do not quote from FOT. Simply because I do not have it in my collection, and it has been many years since I read it. My sources are as follows:
Roland Krug von Nidda: Ich, Anastasia. erzähle.
Hans Nogly: Anastasia: Ein Frauenschicksal wie kein Anderes
Peter Kurth: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson
Robert K. Massie: The Romanovs
John Klier and Helen Mingay: The Quest for Anastasia
I also have several other books on the subject, but the above are my main sources.

Kind regards
Chat Noir
TatianaA


Offline Tania+

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2006, 01:25:11 AM »
I'm tired of rain, I want some sunshine also. Can you send me a can full of sun ChatNoir ?
Have lots of fun !

Tatiana+


Quote
Quote
Quote

 Just because something goes against your belief, does not make it invalid.

Right back atcha.

I  wholeheartedly agree. That's why I am trying to get you and your ilk to present more FACTS, whether they go against my opinion or not, and if they do, it will be up to me to dig up more evidence and defend my position. Or admit defeat. That's what makes a forum like this fun.
And now off to Palm Springs. A sybarite must have his time in the sun. In the meantime, can anyone explain to me how AA was able to identify Lieutenant Arapov? I'll check in again on Sunday and see the answers.

Kind regards
Chat Noir
TatianaA


Offline Tania+

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2006, 01:37:59 AM »
Dear Pentetorri,

Your comprehension, and background of Russian history is first rate, excellent by far. I look forward to your input, because I respect always what you have to offer the forum members. Your posting on the Rasputin thread was unbelieveable. It held everyone's attention.

Bear really goes in depth to find and share facts, and that's what so good. She goes as far as to give out information which many use to throw back at her, oddly enough these other posters never going to find any facts themselves, but always giving excuses, or side stepping the point of relevance in posting real facts. It becomes old hat to see a poster so centered on this alone without considering other points of view. Bear shares facts, not just her opinion. I think Bear is very well informed. She does not repeat herself, but quotes and posts relevant posts. Glad to see that as an objective reader, you feel Bear to be fair in her postings. Thank you Pentetorri always for your input.

Tatiana+


Quote
Quote
Sigh. I'm so disappointed. Bear for a few hours today I actually thought you were going to FINALLY be fair and objective to both sides with your posts, but I was wrong. You only want to dig up stuff that helps AA's case. You say you don't believe her, then prove it! Let's see all you can dig up and post AGAINST her being AN, and in favor of her being a fraud. I challenge you.

I have been away for a while from the Survivor posts, and I see things have worsened. Ms. Annie I consider you are taking this too serious, and you are going to extremes. Bear is a wonderful and well informed poster in many threads and you are just rambling all the time with few or no sources and just repeating yourself over and over.

I read your post asking the Forum Administrator to lock the Survivor post. Why on earth? Are you running out of steam? If you are so much stressed by these posts why don't you move along to other threads. You could try colouring pictures  ;), that will help you to calm down a little bit. And leave people like Bear and other posters to discuss armoniously this interesting subject.

We got the idea you don't believe AA!!! But, that gives you no right to ban these threads or impose your beliefs .I find no reason on earth why you are so determined to continue discussing a subject you don't believe. What a waste of energy!!. Take my advice do some colouring ........ ;D
TatianaA


Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2006, 12:54:30 PM »
Quote
Sigh. I'm so disappointed. Bear for a few hours today I actually thought you were going to FINALLY be fair and objective to both sides with your posts, but I was wrong. You only want to dig up stuff that helps AA's case. You say you don't believe her, then prove it! Let's see all you can dig up and post AGAINST her being AN, and in favor of her being a fraud. I challenge you.




What would you like me to find for you?

As for my opinion:

I do not believe AA was GD Anastasia. Nor do I believe we need to tangle up fact with misinformation to prove our case.  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson: The Final Frontier
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2006, 01:18:41 PM »
Quote
Seeing as things got a little heated resulting in the other thread getting locked, I thought I better open up a new topic on Anna Anderson, get our juices flowing again.

So, we know Anna Anderson was not Anastasia Nicholaievna from the DNA results.

But, so many parts of her story were so convincing.  Where did she get her information from? How did she 'know' so many languages? Were people helping her? If so, why? Is her story of how she escaped convincing to anyone, or filled with as many holes as the road to Romania?

Any discussion pertaining to Anna Anderson's story can be discussed here, but please, let's keep this CIVIL and ON TOPIC.

Anna Anderson WAS NOT Anastasia, period.  What we're discussing is the aspects of Anna Anderson's story that remain perplexing to us, and how she may have gained the information that helped to convince so many that she was the real Grand Duchess.  What we DON'T want are arguments about why she was Anastasia, or about how the DNA could have been switched; this thread is simply about Anna Anderson's story and how it can, or cannot be explained.

Let's get discussing!

Rachel
xx

I thought I'd repeat Rachel's original post.  Let me repeat somethings she said which outlines our discussion:

In this thread:
 (1) Rachel: >>So, we know Anna Anderson was not Anastasia Nicholaievna from the DNA results. <<
(2) Rachel:>>Where did she get her information from? <<
(3) Rachel:>>How did she 'know' so many languages?<<
(4) Rachel:>> Were people helping her? If so, why? <<
(5) Rachel:>>Is her story of how she escaped convincing to anyone, or filled with as many holes as the road to Romania?<<

Rachel:>>this thread is simply about Anna Anderson's story and how it can, or cannot be explained.<<

A comment on (1) Rachel: >>So, we know Anna Anderson was not Anastasia Nicholaievna from the DNA results. <<

Rachel used the word "we", and I assume this refers to those who believe the DNA / mtDNA results.  I don't think she was excluding those of you who believe AA was GD Anastasia because without everyone's knowledge,  we can't discover all that we would like to know about AA and her stories.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152