Author Topic: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?  (Read 97060 times)

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Offline Lanie

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2005, 01:12:06 PM »
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Margarita Khitrovo was a Lady in Waiting to Olga Nikolaevna.


I think she was a lady-in-waiting to Alexandra, but ended up getting close with Olga since they were the same age.  Rita nursed with both Olga and Tatiana and was a devoted friend of both.

Offline Sarai

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #61 on: February 20, 2005, 03:36:02 PM »
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I think she was a lady-in-waiting to Alexandra, but ended up getting close with Olga since they were the same age.  Rita nursed with both Olga and Tatiana and was a devoted friend of both.


Lanie is right about Rita being a LIW to Alexandra, who eventually became a close friend of Olga's due, in part, to the proximity in their ages.

With regards to the girls feeling "deprived," most of what I have read about them says that they were in fact quite content with their situation and didn't feel deprived at all. They lived in a "gilded cage" but they couldn't imagine life any other way.

Of course, we do know that the girls, Tatiana in particular, longed to have outside friends. So, in her case, she may have indeed felt a bit deprived of friendships. I am sure that all of the girls were glad to get out and meet other people during their hospital work in WWI. They took their responsibilities seriously but must have been glad to get to know other people outside their limited circle.

Perhaps as they grew older they may have felt a bit "deprived" of the opportunity to be out in society, but at least during their childhoods there was no indication that they suffered from their isolation and they seemed perfectly happy amongst themselves.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2005, 05:13:57 PM »
Probably the only time they would really have felt deprived was whilst they were living under captivity. But that would be perfectly understandable.

Offline sunnyluv

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2005, 02:42:33 PM »
 ;)They definetly were...I will find the account of entry by the hospital woman who worked with Olga and Tatiana, and she wrote that they knew "next to nothing" about the outside world--even by "back then" standards they were considered somewhat immature as they spoke in nursery language between themselves--personally I do not think it shows that they were not developed--just that they were isolated--and did not socialize--even as they grew older, their rooms were still called "nursery" and they were considered still "girls" for their mother--elder were referred to as big girls;  They did not know a lot of people outside their family and they did not participate in the activities of their peers--there were only few times that N. himself accompanies their elder daughters to the theatre;  

Maria_Romanov_fan

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2005, 08:55:55 PM »
Lol, guys, I don't know if OTMA were as "deprived" as you think they are. I know some people say "Oh, let's pity the poor Romanov girls who died so young and were not given many social interactions... ect"
Ummm, no not really (well yes it is sad that they died young :'( ). I think that compared to other Russian children of that time (especially peasents) they lived much more comfortable lives.
But yes, they could have had a little more social interactions.  :)
*Hmmm, please let us remember the time frame of Nicholas II's reign, the Romanovs were like a government monarchy and might become the future rulers of Russia.  ;) Lol, I don't think it's possible to go back in time to ask OTMA if they were happy with their childhood, and their childhood social life.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Maria_Romanov_fan »

NAAOTMA

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2005, 10:25:38 PM »
As Janet said, we often look at the 19th Century and early 20th Century through our 21st Century glasses.

I was reading a book about Queen Victoria by one of her ladies in waiting, and in it was related a conversation between the Queen and one of her younger daughters. The gist of it was that royalty kept to its own immediate circle, and that did not include the courtiers and aristocratic types. The Queen pretty much said that friendship was impossible with anyone but another royal. In that regard, Alexandra was more relaxed than her grandmother.


Offline La_Mashka

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2005, 10:31:13 AM »
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I hope you get better soon, Pushkina!

Regarding the children's education -- even Nicholas II had teachers like the former Minister of Finance, Nicholas Bunge, and the Procurator of the Holy Synod, Pobedonostsev.  The latter might have had reactionary views we find repellent, but nobody could argue that his was not, objectively speaking, a formidable intellect.

Alexander I had LaHarpe, Alexander II had the poet Zhukovsky. The last tsarevich, Alexei Nikolaevich, had Gibbes and Gilliard. Very odd.


I believe the Tsarevich "tutor" was named when he turned 11, however in Alexei's case, when this happened the war started, and so his parents decided to wait to choose a tutor, and to let him learn from life (being at the front with his father) for the time being.  Of course they never thought the war would be so long, and that the Tsar would have to abdicate.

This can be rea din Pierre Gilliard's book.
Tishie mushi kot na krushie

Offline Ming

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2005, 08:29:53 PM »
Am enjoying all the valuable information and speculation.  About writing notes: I have never in person seen a real palace, but in pictures, to me, they seem HUGE.  Can you imagine a working, unhealthy mother of five trying to run around the palace, looking for her children, to tell them to wipe their noses or something?  Seems to me that just distance alone would argue for note-writing, sent by servants, as the most efficient and quickest way to get word to one's child, unless one is with them at the moment.

I also feel that royals, by their very nature, are somewhat isolated from the "common man" and probably don't have a realistic idea of how non-royals raise their children.  It's just the nature of the beast, I think, that being royal also means being a little different from the rest of us.  Even today, Queen Elizabeth's children have had problems with their marriages...some due to their parents' lack of involvement with them during their upbringing.

Perhaps the "job" of being a royal is much, much different and more difficult than any--or most of--us can even imagine.

Also, perhaps some royals seem so very isolated because to them, they're the only ones who can trust each other.

While I think it would have been marvelous to have lived in a huge, beautiful home, and have had gorgeous dresses and jewels and the very best of everything, and been waited on all the time, I can also see how that kind of life can easily interfere with self-discovery and a limited world view.

Just thinking.

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2005, 09:19:26 PM »
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I believe the Tsarevich "tutor" was named when he turned 11, however in Alexei's case, when this happened the war started, and so his parents decided to wait to choose a tutor, and to let him learn from life (being at the front with his father) for the time being.  This can be rea din Pierre Gilliard's book.


I am unable to agree with these statements.

Piotr Petrov was the Russian language and literature instructor to all the children.

There is a photograph (see Nicholas II the Imperial Family (2004), p 112) and other sources, which shows Alexei at his desk surrounded by his tutors, Gibbes, Petrov and Gilliard and also Voyeikov.

The photograph was taken in 1916 at Stavka (General Headquarters).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2005, 10:02:22 PM »
Here is that photograph taken on 7 December 1916:



In the photograph:

P. Gilliard, V. Voyeikov, the Tsetsarevich, S. Gibbes and P. Petrov holding onto the stool.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline koloagirl

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2005, 08:00:09 PM »
 :)

I have to agree with both Sarai and Janet W. on their assessments.  :)

I really don't think that the GD's felt themselves isolated and deprived in a big way.  

I know that Tatiana expressed a wish for a friend - but in no way do I ever get the feeling from reading books that they felt deprived or rebellious about it.  Rather, they showed a deep devotion to each other which I don't think we can really understand from this point in time.  The situation into which they were thrust was unique and ultimately they relied on each other (and parents) for support and love.  Which they received.

This is one of the things that makes me feel ultimately better about their deaths - they were together and I'm sure each of them would have wanted it that way (my opinion at least).
Janet R.
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Offline hikaru

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2005, 10:58:14 AM »
I just want to say that Russian equivalent of
"Carrying coal to Newcastle" will be
"To go to Toula with own samovar".
As for OTMAA isolation - they were very isolated.
For Example,
It was forbidden for them to speak with the girls of Committees who were preparing the corpia etc.
They also can not speak free in the hospital with everybody.
The circle of people to whom they could speak was
decided by Empresse.
I think , of course, they did not
hear their mother in this but if somebody saw them speaking to the strangers,  it was followed by the home scandal.

Finelly

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2005, 09:06:09 PM »
Alix's role models were Victoria of England and Alexandra of England.  Alexandra of England (Mrs.Edward) kept her own girls VERY close to her and deprived them of a lot of social adult life.  They remained rather childish and sheltered into adulthood.  Perhaps Alix thought this was the way to raise her daughters.  And, of course, she felt that the other courtiers and nobility were corrupt and decadent and immoral, so she wouldn't want to expose her daughters to THEM.....

Offline koloagirl

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2005, 08:49:19 PM »
 :)

I really don't think that the Grand Duchesses were "deprived" in any significant way.

Yes, they lived a very isolated life - really only social with their cousins and other exalted children -- but they lived such close lives with each other - I cannot think of any other Royal Family that had the loving relationships that the "girlies" seemed to have had with each other.

To our eyes it may seem that they were not exposed to very much of the "real world" and I'm sure that is true...but given their rank I don't believe that they would have been....and I like to think of them as happy with each other and not knowing any differently....happy within their little family group.

Maybe I'm idealistic -- who knows?  But I would certainly like to think that they were happy and did not feel isolated or deprived in any significant way.

Janet R.
:)
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Finelly

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Re: The Imperial children "sad,sheltered" life?
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2005, 09:38:47 PM »
Being deprived and FEELING deprived are different.  Clearly, OTMA lived in a dysfunctional family system.  They didn't have much contact with the outside world nor were they given the opportunity to "come out" in the traditional way.

Most people who grow up in non-violent or non-abusive dysfunctional families don't have a clue what they are missing.