Author Topic: Current Perception of the Windsors and the Future of the Monarchy  (Read 105010 times)

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Rani

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #525 on: December 21, 2010, 03:26:12 PM »

 Also- change of dynasty ?  How silly, the Bavarian is CATHOLIC, for one- another act of Parliament. And a new government as well.

How charming..
There is a little, tiny movement. But how silly from me to mention the option.
And I know that they are catholic. I live in Germany. I think I know a little bit of Bavaria. But hey...


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« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 03:34:47 PM by Rani »

Offline carl fraley

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #526 on: December 21, 2010, 05:09:39 PM »
To Quote HM on her 21st Birthday,

"I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong."

and the word "Abdication" is taboo I would think to HM, The Queen Mother was reported to remark when asked if the Queen would ever abdication "really, this is not the Netherlands".  and  Queen Wilhelmina, who led her country through World War II, abdicated at the age of 68 (despite the comment of Charles's great-grandmother, Queen Mary, that 68 was not an age to just "give up one's job".  IMO HM meant what she said, she dedicated her WHOLE life and it is a life committment, and she cemented that with her coronation, and that oath is something HM would take as binding, the same as IMO as she hold the legitimate and lawful succession.


Anything else is just rag tag reporters trying to sell PUre RUBBISH

Offline Emperor of the Dominions

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #527 on: December 21, 2010, 07:36:26 PM »
This thread in my opinion should not even appear! HM is  HM until the day she dies, this is what she said;

"I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong."

End of.

God Save our Queen

R.I.
God save the Queen !

Offline Grace

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #528 on: December 21, 2010, 08:10:39 PM »
Couldn't agree more, Emperor.

Offline MarshallHowell

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #529 on: December 21, 2010, 10:15:51 PM »
It has been discussed on the news recently as the preparations are made for William and Kate's wedding; and it came up as they were discussing the future of the monarchy as its a question of which the British public is certainly aware. If the queen lives as long as her mother Charles would be almost eighty before he ascends the throne. Becoming king at such an age might lead to views expressing a "lack of vitality" as far as the public opinion of the monarchy.

Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #530 on: December 22, 2010, 08:13:42 AM »
I'm sure you are right Marshall, the media will discuss any and all topics that they think will sell papers or enable them to have "scoops" in our 24 hour a day instant news cycle.  But it means nothing. 

Robert and other posters have it right.  Let's set aside for one minute the absolute fact that the Queen intends to reign until her death.  But even if she didn't, the British monarch has no power to abdicate unilaterally.

Let's just theoretically say Elizabeth II did signal she wished to abdicate.  The UK Parliament would have to pass a law giving her the right to do so in Britain.  The Parliaments of each of the other 15 Commonwealth Realms would each have to approve a similar bill to let her abdicate their Crowns.  If any refused, Elizabeth could theoretically remain Queen of those countries while Charles ascended the Thrones of the others.  But the more likely scenario would be that the resulting debates would end with some Realms abandoning the Monarchy itself and becoming republics.  Then there's the matter of the position of the Head of the Commonwealth itself, which doesn't automatically lie with the Monarch. 

Elizabeth II did not dedicate her entire life to the Crown only to see it break up in this way.  End of story.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #531 on: December 22, 2010, 09:14:41 AM »
The Duke of Windsor abdicated by executing a Declaration of Abdication, which was ratified by Act of Parliament the following day. The then Irish Free State also rushed through an Act giving effect to the abdication, and as far as I know the other Dominions did likewise. The situatiuon was made easier by the fact that the king effectively abdicated on ministerial advice, and none of the Dominions objected.

In the entirely hypothetical case of the present Queen, things are likely to be rather more complicated, as there would be a good deal less unanimity on the issue of both abdication and succession (though there were apparently suggestions in 1936 that George VI should renounce his rights, so that the Queen would succeed with a regent, or that the Duke of Gloucester should succeed).

Ann

Offline ashdean

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #532 on: December 22, 2010, 09:25:07 AM »
This thread in my opinion should not even appear! HM is  HM until the day she dies, this is what she said;

"I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong."

End of.

God Save our Queen

R.I.
HERE HERE!

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #533 on: December 22, 2010, 11:05:26 AM »
Thanks for the quote. I think thisshould squash such rumours.

Offline Grace

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #534 on: December 22, 2010, 03:48:10 PM »
This is obviously nothing new, Eric, and unfortunately it's failed to quash rumours that the Queen may abdicate which have been doing the rounds for years if not decades now. 

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Abdication of Elizabeth II
« Reply #535 on: December 22, 2010, 05:30:43 PM »
So true Grace. I think the first time I read  about this scenario was when Charles was invested with the Prince of Wales title at Carnaevon [sic].  That was indeed decades ago !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Current Perception of the Windsors and the Future of the Monarchy
« Reply #536 on: December 23, 2010, 11:07:12 AM »
There is very few abidications in British History. Apart from the well known case of Edward VIII, there is also Henry II's abdication to his eldest son Henry & the forced abdication of Mary Queen of Scots in favour of her infant son James.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Current Perception of the Windsors and the Future of the Monarchy
« Reply #537 on: December 23, 2010, 11:14:41 AM »
Henry II did not abdicate in favour of his eldest son. Following Capetian practice, he had his eldest son crowned in his own lifetime to ensure the succession (perhaps not surprising, given that he had become king after the Anarchy of Stephen's reign), but retained full powers. Henry the Young King died while in rebellion against his father because Henry refused to give him anything more than an empty title.

Edward II technically abdicated rather than being deposed. Richard II may have abdicated in similar fashion but was deposed anyway. The only voluntary abdication remains Edward VIII, apart from several Anglo-Saxon kings who abdicated and became monks.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Current Perception of the Windsors and the Future of the Monarchy
« Reply #538 on: December 23, 2010, 11:19:39 AM »
That is why it is almost impossible. Would be Queen become Princess Elizabeth again (in the Dutch mode) after her abdication ? It would simply not work. Yes, Henry II crowned his son king, would the Queen remain queen while Charles King in that model ? A Queen Camilla & a Princess Elizabeth ? Not likely...

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Current Perception of the Windsors and the Future of the Monarchy
« Reply #539 on: December 23, 2010, 12:19:15 PM »
No, it's not going to happen. Our tradition is entirely against it. I think the Queen will continue scaling down her public duties very gradually, and may reach a point where age and infirmity mean an effective retirement, but abdicate, defrinitely not. And bear in mind that both the Queen Mother and Princess Alice Duchess of Gloucester carried on doing public duties almost to the end of their lives. Princess Alice's last public appearance was at the time of her hundredth birthday, but according to the Court Circular she continued to receive visits from commanding officers of her regiments for some time after.

Ann