Author Topic: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address  (Read 119950 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kim

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I Love YaBB 2!
    • View Profile
Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« on: August 27, 2004, 02:23:56 PM »
Could someone please make a list of the Romanov men who were alive at the time of the revolution and what their titles were and why? Thanks, if anyone has the time to clear this up for me.

Offline Kim

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I Love YaBB 2!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 08:07:43 PM »
So if:

Nicholas I - Alexander II - Alexander III - Nicholas II  
                                                         
Nicholas I - Konstantin - KR - Ioann

Nicholas I - Nicholas - Nicholas (Jr)

Nicholas I - Michael - Alexander (Sandro)

So I'm assuming that you are a Grand Duke 2 generations beyond the Tsar but not 3? Is that it?

then why was Vladimir of the same generation still a Grand Duke ???

Alexander II-  Vladimir- Kyril- Vladmir

Offline jackie3

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • "...such pig and filth!" - GD Anastasia N.
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2004, 08:23:19 PM »
I figure, Vladimir was born in 1917 and by the 1920s (when Vladimir was still a child) his father had set himself as "Tsar-in exile" with the death of Nicholas, Alexis and Michael. So Vladimir was a "grand duke" because his father by that time was the de jure "tsar". Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jackie3 »

Offline Kim

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I Love YaBB 2!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2004, 08:27:24 PM »
Oh so he changed it himself. I thought it didn't figure with the rest of the cousins, something had to be up. Thank you.

Offline Louise

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2004, 08:27:27 PM »
Correct!! Kim don't get frustrated trying to figure out the connections. It will just take some time to make sense of it all. My suggestion to you is to read as much as you can on the Romanov's and sit for hours like I did and study the dang family tree. Most books should have some family charts. The one in The Camera and the Tsar is good and so is the one in Hessian Tapestry.

It really is fun once you can piece it all together!

Louise
The sign of a sick mind is studying for a final exam and thinking it's the

Offline Kim

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • I Love YaBB 2!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2004, 08:36:08 PM »
Thanks, I will try to find those books! :)

Offline Anastasia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • IC XC NIKA
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2005, 07:02:32 PM »
I did a search and supposedly this topic has not been done before, but if I'm reposting maybe one of you could direct me to the discussion.

I was wondering if any of you knew what the requisites were for women to be eligible to be a lady-in-waiting to the Empress, and what sort of things were expected of them and where they lived?

Thank you, any information you can give me will be helpful.

-Anastasia

Offline Charles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2005, 08:02:44 AM »
Anastasia:

I am in the final stages of a translation of At the Court of Two Emperors by AF Tiutcheva, who was a lady-in-waiting to Empress Maria Aleksandrovna, from the time that she was Tsesarevna and in the first few years of A II's reign, she was then governess for GD Maria Aleksandrovna and Sergei Aleksandrovich.

Family connections were a large part of who was chosen as a lady-in-waiting.  In the case of Tiutcheva, it was certainly her father's connections that helped her with this appointment, but surprisingly, MA chose her over her more attractive sisters, precisely because she was less attractive, older, and well-educated (she went to school in Munich).

I will let you know once I have completed this and found a suitable publisher.

Offline Anastasia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • IC XC NIKA
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 05:00:34 AM »
Thank you.

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2005, 08:28:40 AM »
Pls do not hesitate to explaine kindly the English equivalent of the following ranks:
1. Stats-Dama
2. Kamer-Freilina'
3. Hofmeisterina
4. Freilina

Thank you very much in advance.

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2005, 08:55:49 AM »
Thanks and sorry for disturb.
I have found it at the main site in the Document of the Funeral of Alexandr III.

Thank you very much for this documents, but I found one intresting fact : the order of the ranks have changed in 1904 in comparison with 1894.


Offline Macedonsky

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • Russian Succession
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2005, 05:08:24 AM »
Quote
I found one intresting fact : the order of the ranks have changed in 1904 in comparison with 1894.

What exactly was changed? Who was buried in 1904?

Offline Macedonsky

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • Russian Succession
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2005, 05:55:29 AM »
n
Quote
Pls do not hesitate to explaine kindly the English equivalent of the following ranks:
1. Stats-Dama
2. Kamer-Freilina'
3. Hofmeisterina
4. Freilina

The correct precedence is another. And it is not easy to translate originally German ranks.

Married:
1.Oberhofmeisterin - lady high steward of the court (senior household mistress)
2.Hofmeisterin - chief lady-in-waiting (household mistress)
3.Stats-Dame - lady-in-waiting
Unmarried:
4.Kammerfräulein - chambermaid
5.Fräulein - maid of honour

See also http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/iedu_En/zd/external/hotwords/hotword32151.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by macedonsky »

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4594
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 11:18:28 AM »
You can actually find the English equivalents in my translation:

1.Oberhofmeisterin - Grand Mistress of the Court
2.Hofmeisterin - Mistress of the Court
3.Stats-Dame - lady-in-waiting  
Unmarried:
4.Kammerfräulein - Portrait Maiden of Honor
5.Fräulein - maiden of honor

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 01:20:24 PM »
Thank you Macedonsky and FA very much.
I understood you perfectly.