Author Topic: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address  (Read 138984 times)

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Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2005, 07:28:07 AM »
Hello,

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but what the are titles for all Russian Royals and Nobles (highest to lowest)


My guess:

Emperor (Tsar)
Dowager Empress
Empress (Tsarina)
Tsarevitch
Tsarevna
Grand Duke
Grand Duchess
Prince
Princess
Count
Countess

whats next?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Maria_Pavlovna »

Offline Marc

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2005, 07:46:11 AM »
Well,I think then Baron,Baroness and then,maybe,boyar,boyaress...(phrase for the members of Russian ancient noble families without the tetles)

Offline lostfan

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2005, 08:17:07 PM »
Doesn't the Empress come before the Dowager Empress? I remember reading about Marie Feodorovna complaining about having to give up seniority to someone as young as Alix.
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Offline nerdycool

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2005, 06:24:54 PM »
No, the Empress would come after the Dowager Empress, as strange as that sounds. There've been many account of occasions where Nicholas escorted his mother and Alexandra was escorted by Michael... all because of rank.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2005, 08:10:44 PM »
It is not all that strange and is pretty common in court ranking. The idea being that the mother [dowager] gave birth to an emperor, a wife had to marry one. This is particularly relevant in Christian monarchies
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2005, 05:37:23 AM »
Quote
maybe,boyar,boyaress...(phrase for the members of Russian ancient noble families without the tetles)


Boyarin(a) are not modern noble titles. These titles which came into existence during the 9th century were abolished by Peter the Great during the 17th century.


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Offline sydguy71

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2005, 06:00:56 AM »
Is there a difference between the title, Count or Baron? What one was higher ranking in precedence, if there wasa difference.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2005, 06:41:13 AM »
Quote
Emperor (Tsar)


The title of Emperor has been in existence since Peter the Great abolished the appellation "Tsar".

Unfortunately many insist using Tsar incorrectly when refering to the Imperial Russian heads of State after and including Peter I.

Nikolai II was the Imperator (Emperor) and Samoderjetz (Autocrat) of all the Russias.

His consort was the Tsaritsa or more officially she was refered to as the Imperatritsa

The Emperor's son who was in line to the throne was refered to as the Naslednik Tsesarevich  (Heir apparent). If he married before suceeding his father, the wife was refered to as a Tsesarevna.

A son of an Emperor who was not an heir was titled as a Velikii Knyaz' (Grand Duke), while a daughter was called a Velikaya Knyaginya (Grand Duchess).

All the above titles apply to the immediate Imperial Family.

The Dowager Empress was refered to as:

Ee Vdovstvyushaya Imperatritsa and she formally preceeded the Emperor's consort.



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Offline Belochka

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2005, 07:01:21 AM »
Quote
Is there a difference between the title, Count or Baron? What one was higher ranking in precedence, if there wasa difference.


The title of Baron was usually given to persons who were industrialists or bankers of non-Russian origin. They were the least common of all titles used in Russia. Barons were the lowest ranked nobility.

Grafi (Counts) were as plentiful as were ordinary Princes. Grafi received their titles for service to the State, usually as a reward for exemplary military service. That title could be be passed down the line through the male line to the son and grandson.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline sydguy71

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2005, 06:45:13 PM »
Thanks Belochka. Very interesting. I always assumed Barons and Counts were the same.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2005, 10:50:07 PM »
You're welcome sydguy71! ;)


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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2005, 11:06:13 AM »
I would like to know how, in the family, they call each other with "ty" or "vy" (in russian)? If the translations are right, it must be "ty" but...   ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by marina »

Offline Shvibzik

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2005, 03:34:48 PM »
I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but here goes.

As a king or queen, anyone under you would call you "Your Majesty" or "Sire" (for a king at least).  This also goes for Emperors/Empresses/Tsars, ect., ect.  For princesses/princes/GD's, ect. they would be called "Your Highness".  And for dukes and duchesses they would be "Your Grace".  

My question is what would counts, viscounts, barons, ect. be called since every rank is called by a different title?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2005, 04:46:26 PM »
I do not know if this is the coreect place for this question either but as there is no protocol topic, this would seem to be as good a place as could a few others.

Your question is one that is much more complicated than you may know. I think I shall break it up into three sections in order to present it in a logical manner. What you refer to as titles are actually called styles, as in styles of address. What you call ranks are just that but a narrower scope of description would be titles.

The next problem to addressing your question is if one should simply give you the forms of address in Russian or to try to translate them into English as accurately as possible to their true spirit and meaning in the Russian language. Over the centuries, the Russian styles when translated into other languages have been codified so to speak. These long accepted translations have not been totally accurate, so please put away what you think you already know about Russian titles and styles when reading my answer.

Members of the Imperial Family of Russia

His Imperial Majesty the Sovereign Emperor

Her Imperial Majesty the Empress

His Imperial Highness the Grand Duke
Sons of the Emperor and grand sons of the Emperor in the male line.

Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess
Daughters of the Emperor and grand daughters of the Emperor in the male line.

His Highness the Prince of the Imperial Blood
Great grand sons of the Emperor in the male line and the eldest son of each of the great grand sons of the Emperor in the male line.

Her Highness the Princess of the Imperial Blood
Great grand daughters of the Emperor in the male line.

His Serenity the Prince of the Imperial Blood
Great great grand sons of the Emperor in the male line.

Her Serenity the Princess of the Imperial Blood
Great great grand daughters of the Emperor in the male line.


Members of the Nobility of the Russian Empire with Native Titles

Serene Prince- His/Her Serenity the Prince/ss

Illustrious Prince- His/Her Illustriousness the Prince/ss

Count - His/Her Illustriousness the Count/ess

Baron - His/Her Excellency the Baron/ess

Members of the Nobility of the Russian Empire with foreign titles that do not corresspond with Russian titles

Duke (Gerzog in Russian)- Addressed as: His/Her Highness the Duke/Duchess or His/Her Serenity the Duke/Duchess depending upon their royal or serene status.

Marquis (Markvis in Russian)- ? - May be one if any use of the title with a naturalised noble.

Vicount (Vikont in Russian)- ?- May be one if any use of the title with a naturalised noble.


DAP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Offline Shvibzik

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Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2005, 05:08:42 PM »
Thank you David, that really helped.  I know I didn't get the title/rank/style thing right, so thanks for clearing that up too.  Who would be called "Your Grace" then?  Or is there such style?