Author Topic: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address  (Read 135231 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2005, 05:56:19 PM »
In the United Kingdom a non-royal duke is addressed as "Your Grace".

DAP

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4646
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2005, 05:59:01 PM »
In Imperial Russia, The Tsar and his immediate family (NAOTMAA) would be "Your Imperial Highness".  All other Grand Dukes/Duchesses would be "Your Highness".

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2005, 06:51:58 PM »
Quote
In Imperial Russia, The Tsar and his immediate family (NAOTMAA) would be "Your Imperial Highness".  All other Grand Dukes/Duchesses would be "Your Highness".


The examples that I posted above were for use in the most formal of occaissions such as, petitions, written invitations, diplomatic corresspondence, etc. The styles of address recommended by the Forum Administrator would only have been used in prolonged conversation of a less formal nature. Someday, I may post a chart of the styles of address for Imperial Family Members: written and conversational, diplomatic, formal and informal, speaking about/of, speaking to, ec, ec, ec,

DAP





Offline Shvibzik

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
  • Bling it on
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2005, 08:32:35 PM »
That sounds very interesting, David!  I hope you can. :)

Offline Mike

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1324
    • View Profile
    • Erast Fandorin Museum
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2005, 06:32:10 AM »
David's table is excellent. However, a few remarks:

There was no such title - "Illustrious Prince/ss", just "Prince/ss = knyaz'/knyaginya/knyazhna".

Barons were not addressed "His Excellency", but "Mr. Baron". The former style was applied only to bearers of the 4th and 3rd service ranks and to holders of some offices who had lower ranks (e.g. university professors) or no ranks at all (e.g. the Lady Chief of the Institute for Noble Maidens).  

To Forum Admin:
The emperor and the empress were never addressed "Your Imperial Highness", at least in Russian. Only "Your Imperial Majesty = Vashe Imperatorskoye Velichestvo" or, in a less formal situation, "Your Majesty".

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4646
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2005, 08:57:39 AM »
Ah, thanks Mike, the error was in my translation. I know the Russian but mis translated.

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2005, 10:12:09 AM »
Quote
David's table is excellent. However, a few remarks:

There was no such title - "Illustrious Prince/ss", just "Prince/ss = knyaz'/knyaginya/knyazhna".

Barons were not addressed "His Excellency", but "Mr. Baron". The former style was applied only to bearers of the 4th and 3rd service ranks and to holders of some offices who had lower ranks (e.g. university professors) or no ranks at all (e.g. the Lady Chief of the Institute for Noble Maidens).  


Dear Mike,

Yes, there was no title called "Illustrious Prince", it was just my way of differentiating the title of Prince that was addressed with the style of "Illustrious". As you know, there are many variations of the rank of Prince in the Russian hierarchy.

Thank you for the information on the style of a Russian Baron. I could not find the proper form of address in my books but I recalled seeing a Baron addressed as "Excellency". Maybe this usage was in a foreign context such as addressing a Russian Diplomat who held the title of baron.

DAP

Offline Mike

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1324
    • View Profile
    • Erast Fandorin Museum
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2005, 10:37:35 AM »
Quote
I recalled seeing a Baron addressed as "Excellency". Maybe this usage was in a foreign context such as addressing a Russian Diplomat who held the title of baron.

Probably, but then he couldn't be an ambassador, only envoy, charge d'affairs or councillor. A Russian ambassador (if not a prince or a count) would have always been addressed "High Excellency",  because all ambassadors enjoyed the 2nd service rank (deystvitelnyi taynyi sovetnik).

Offline Shvibzik

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
  • Bling it on
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2005, 11:26:10 PM »
What would an earl's style be?

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2005, 11:56:09 PM »
The title Earl is peculiar to Great Britain and Ireland. It corresponds to the European title of Count. The style of address for an Earl is The Right Honourable.

DAP

Offline Shvibzik

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
  • Bling it on
    • View Profile
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2005, 09:43:48 AM »
Thanks!  I'm interested in all of the titles, that's why I asked.  I never knew it varied so much from country to country.

AlexP

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2005, 10:46:16 AM »
Quote
Ah, thanks Mike, the error was in my translation. I know the Russian but mis translated.


Michael,

So help me discuss the titles in Russian because perhaps the English loose me :

When the Emperor entered a room :

Evo Avgusteishee Imperatorcheskoy Velitzchvo.

For A.A.

Eo Avgusteishee Imperatorchkoy Velitzchvo.

Now for a Velikii Khyaz, not of the Reigning Family :

Evo Visohestvo :

Here is where you loose me in English:

For a count (graf), are you saying : Vashe Cvetlost?

Again, all of this depended on the the totality of the titles, Graf Sheremetiv might also be Kniaz Mechersky, in which case he would have be introduced as Evo Visotcho.

I have to check the rules of the Nobility Association on this one...my memory fails me here.


Thanks,

Alexandre Alexandrovtich

Offline Mike

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1324
    • View Profile
    • Erast Fandorin Museum
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2005, 11:09:09 AM »
Quote
Evo Avgusteishee Imperatorcheskoy Velitzchvo.

I've never heard that the form "Avgusteishee" was used in a style.

Princes [non-imperial, knyaz'] and counts [graf] were addressed using the same style "Vashe Siyatel'stvo". Serene princes [svetleyshiy knyaz']: "Vasha Svetlost'".

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2005, 12:50:51 PM »
I cannot find Evo Avgusteishee Imperatorcheskoy Velitzchvo as an official form of address but I cannot imagine that anyone, especially the Emperor, would object. One could easily imagine a foreign diplomat adding such an extra touch during an Imperial Audience.

David

Offline Mike

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1324
    • View Profile
    • Erast Fandorin Museum
Re: Titles, Ranks and Forms of Address
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2005, 01:55:15 PM »
I think that the emperor would be profoundly astonished should a foreign ambassador publicly address him in Russian - or in any language other than French. The only possible exception could be made for a papal nuncio, using Latin.