Author Topic: Carlos IV of Spain and his family  (Read 26991 times)

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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2006, 11:50:26 PM »
These pictures are great, Grand Duke! All of them are very clear... Seeing them, we may easily understand why Goya was a genial painter! What an artist!

RealAnastasia.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:36:29 PM by trentk80 »

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2006, 12:13:32 PM »
I'm a bit of a fan of Maria Luisa. I tend to agree with Umigon that the affair with Godoy is not proven. I wouldn't have blamed her if she had though! I think she was unlucky (like her cousins in France and elsewhere) in living through revolutionary times with a less than brilliant husband. Unlike some she didn't end up on the guillotine.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:37:52 PM by trentk80 »
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Offline Bernardino

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2006, 01:51:39 PM »
I tend to get suspicious about the accusations of infidelity and nymphomaniac tendencies among royals...I'm not saying that they don't exist, but (to some may seem a kind of conspiracy theory) when the royal person is Catholic and from an old family...there seems to be a kind of obligatory characteristics that are common to every situation: catholicism (many times not implicitely pointed out, so not to rise suspition), close familiar inter-marriage, ambition of power, etc...

« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:17:31 AM by trentk80 »

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2006, 07:23:39 PM »
Well...yes. I noticed that too, Bernardino. Now that you said it, I'm starting to doubt about Maria Luisa's nymphomaniac tendencies.

RealAnastasia
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:43:39 PM by trentk80 »

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2006, 09:32:39 AM »
According to court gossip, Maria Luisa's two youngest were Manuel de Godoy's children. Indeed, many claimed there was an "indecent likeness" between the two royal children and their parents' favourite. Though this may have just been a rumour started by an interested party, you may like to know that Francisco de Paula (Carlos IV's youngest (official) son was not given back the title of Infante upon the restoration of the monarchy and according to the 1812 constitution. Many have thought this was due to Francisco's doubtful parentage, but recent publications indicate it was due to the ex-Infante's political views, which were at the time close to Napoleon's. Due to this privation, years later King Fernando VII gave his nephews (Francisco's sons) the titles of Duque de Cádiz and Duque de Sevilla. Fernando VII's daughter, Queen Isabel, continued this tradition of granting titles to her numerous cousins.
Going back to Maria Luisa, she didn't get along with her daughter-in-law, Fernando VII's first wife Maria Antonia of Naples, whom she acused of dressing inappropriately. When Maria Antonia died in 1806, Maria Luisa and Godoy were accused of having poisoned her. Fernando, who by then was still Prince of Asturias and disliked Godoy, cleared things when he wrote that people were unfairly accusing Manuel Godoy of being a murderer.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:42:44 PM by trentk80 »

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2006, 10:07:08 PM »
As for Manuel Godoy habits of murdering people, legend is not very kind to him. I've read that he was accused by popular rumors of killing Maria Antonia, but also that the Queen and possibily himself have poisoned Maria del Pilar Teresa Cayetana, Duchess of Alba.

This was proven to be FALSE (forensic experts unburied her and studied her corpse thoroughly in 1945), for nobody found any poison in Duchess of Alba remains... However, nothing was said about Maria Antonia. 

Probably, these were only rumors, but it shows that people didin't like Godoy at all and believed that he could do the worst thing in the whole world.

RealAnastasia.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 01:43:04 PM by trentk80 »

Offline gogm

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2006, 10:53:24 PM »
A new site has opened up in Spain at

http://pintura.aut.org/

It has a number of good Spanish royal portraits by Lopez and Madrazo. :)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 01:54:54 AM by trentk80 »

Offline Grand Duke

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2006, 09:30:03 AM »
Carlos IV



by José Vergara, 1789.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 01:56:37 AM by trentk80 »
I'm THE GRAND DUKE of LIPTON-upon-AVON ! Please to meet you. I'm glad you know my name!

Offline Mari

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 02:49:16 AM »
I was looking for descriptions of Maria Luisa by contemporaries and I found some interesting comments:
 
Quote
"The Family of Charles IV" (1800). The prized treasure of the Prado, it is, alas, not in the current show.

In this enormous (11½ by 132½ inches) monument to the witless corruption of the Spanish monarchy, Goya depicted the cuckolded king and his ugly wife as beribboned, overdressed and pompous figures surrounded by 11 elegantly dressed but unappealing royal personages. The painting led French novelist Theophile Gautier to remark that the royal couple looked like "the corner baker and his wife after they won the lottery." As Velázquez had done in "Las Meninas," Goya included himself as a shadowy figure in the background laboring at his easel.
Quote
from Antiques and the Art

http://antiquesandthearts.com/CS0-04-30-2002-13-01-11
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:26:32 PM by trentk80 »

Offline Katerina Stradova

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2010, 11:13:18 AM »
According to Wikipedia, Queen Maria Luisa also was a rival of the famous Duchess of Alba and the Duchess of Osuna. Does anyone know why?

And speaking of the Duchess of Alba, does anyone have more information about her?

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2010, 04:28:03 AM »
Quote
And speaking of the Duchess of Alba, does anyone have more information about her?

There's quite a lot of information about her as she was Goya's Duchess of Alba - María del Pilar Teresa Cayetana de Silva Alvarez de Toledo y Silva Bazán, 13th Duchess of Alba.  However, most of the information concerns her relationship with Goya rather than Maria Luisa!  She was considered eccentric and certainly Maria Luisa disliked her - this website repeats the rumours that Maria Luisa poisoned her - http://artmodel.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/goya-and-the-duchess/ although when her body was exhumed in the 20th century the consensus seems to be that she died of TB. 

María Josefa Pimentel, Duchess-Countess of Benavente, 12th Duchess of Osuna, was also painted by Goya and was a society leader in a way the Duchess of Alba wasn't - she had a literary salon as well and was extremely charitable.  The Alba and Osuna families were the wealthiest noble families in Spain, so the enmity of Maria Luisa may simply have been political - these women represented aristocratic rivals in some form.  In Spain, women were establishing themselves as leaders by mainly through patronising the arts, and thereby influencing politics through their salons and parties and good works - something Maria Luisa would have felt pretty threatened by, I imagine. 

Offline princeasturias

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Re: Carlos IV of Spain and his family
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2016, 02:28:21 PM »


King Carlos IV and queen Maria Luisa