Author Topic: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko  (Read 77836 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2010, 07:19:09 AM »
Found it...Princess Pulcheria Sturdza was daughter of Prince Nicolai Sturdza and Princess Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu...if you look further in genealogy of the Bals family you will find that there was one Pulcheria Bals,born in 1799 who married Prince Iordache Rosetti-Roznovanu so she could be also her ancestor through her mother Maria...

http://www.ghika.net/Familles/Bals/Bals_01.pdf


Here I found a quote in the book of Prince Michail Dimitri Sturdza,called " La Russie et la désunion des principautés roumaines, 1864-1866"





Here is a link to the book,although I don't understand French,I figured out about Pulcheria's parents posted above:


http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/cmr_0008-0160_1971_num_12_3_1843


Here you see that her one aunt was Princess Ekaterina Mourousi and the other Zoe who she also mentiones in her book was Princess Cantacuzene...In her biography Nathalie also mentioned another aunt which was not mentioned in this quote...she says that she was married to Count de Bouille(hope I got the right spelling)...she also says that her family frequently visited "her mother cousin Princess Gagarina"...

Offline djordjes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2010, 06:56:31 PM »
Thank you for these information. I didn't find any more information about Pulcheria Sturdza and her parents Nicolau Sturdza and Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu. Where did they born or die, and who were their ancestors? I only found this http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatul_Roznovanu

I also found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail_Sturdza (brother of Roxane Sturdza 1785-1844, Milan's and Nathalie's great-grandmother). Do you have picture of Nathalie's father Peter Keshko (1830-1865)? His parents was Ivan Keshko (Ioan Kesco) and Nathalie Bals (1812-1830). Nathalie's parents were Roxane Sturdza and Iordaki (Iordache, Gheorghe) Bals (1776-1849). I didn't find any information about Ioan Keshko (when hi lived, died, who were his parents etc.)

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2010, 08:45:48 AM »
I am afraid that I know about Keshko ancestors as much as you do.Unfortunately,I don't have a picture of her father Peter Keshko ;-(

The palace Roznovanu was in Iashi where her grandmother Princess Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu lived.They often stayed with her as children.After her mothers death her grandmother wanted the Keshko children to live there with her but Natalia didn't want that as she always remembered her mother's words about Moldavia which were not very pleasing concerning that her family Sturdza was deposed from the throne there.Although Moldavian Princes,Sturdza family left Moldavia for Russia after the fall from power and on 31.03.1884 they were proclaimed Princes of the Russian Empire.

Her brother Michael was at one time living with their grandmother in Iashi,but he got sick there and few years after he died.Her grandmother Maria was a person with whom she corresponded during her time in Serbia.She informed Natalia about her sister Maria who "run away" with Prince Ghika.Natalia was not pleased because she had other plans for her.

It is interesting that her immediate family,apart from her grandmothers sister Esmeralda,whom she later described as an intriguer,were against the marriage of Natalia and Prince Milan.She grew up with Prince Dimitri-Grisha and Princess Olga Manukbei and the family was hoping for a match with Dimitri who loved Natalia...She remained friends with Olga who visited her in Serbia as Countess von Hatzfeld-Trachenberg upon her marriage...

When she got engaged to Prince Milan of Serbia two weeks later her cousin Prince Ivan Obolensky,son of Prince Mikhail Obolensky and Princess Olga Sturdza and later in his life Governor-General of Finland,proposed to her through a letter,but it was too late.She said that Prince Ivan Obolensky was a great gentleman who later became a very good husband to his wife and that she regrets that this letter was two weeks late...

She also talked about the fight in a ball between Prince Trubetskoy and Baron von Ungern-Sternberg because of her...

Offline djordjes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2010, 02:43:18 PM »
Father of Nicoalu Sturdza was Ioan Sturdza (1761-1842), Prince of Moldavia 1822-1828. On this page http://homepage.mac.com/crowns/r/avframe.html I found name of Nicolau mother (Ioan's wife) Catherina but anymore information about her. Ioan father was Alexandru Sturdza, see http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/STE_SUS/STURDZA_or_STURZA.html, but I don't know who was his mother.

Ancestors of Queen Nathalie:
1. Peter Keshko (Pjotr Ivanovic Kesko) 1830-1865
2. Pulcheria Sturdza (died before 1875)
1.1. Ivan Kesko
1.2. Nathalie Bals 1812-1830
2.1. Nicolau Sturdza
2.2. Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu (died after 1875?)
1.1.1. ?
1.1.2. ?
1.2.1. Iordaki (Iordache, Gheorghe) Bals 1776-1849
1.2.2. Roxane Sturdza 1785-1844
2.1.1. Ioan Sturdza 1761-1842, Prince of Moldavia 1822-1828
2.1.2. Catherina ?
2.2.1. ?
2.2.2. ?

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2010, 08:07:42 PM »
Yes,Princess Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu died after 1875 because Queen Natalia says in her memoirs that she received a letter from her Roznovanu grandmother in 1881.

There is one more clue to this...in her memoirs Natalia mentioned her aunt who married Count de Bouille.Well,there is one,who is not her aunt,but is related...Princess Smaranda Rosetti-Roznovanu married French Count Henri de Bouille which could make her first cousin of her mother Pulcheria and since her memoirs are written in Serbia,where every close elder cousin is called aunt and uncle and only distant cousin is called just a cousin...that would mean that her grandmother Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu is daughter of Prince Iordache Rosetti-Roznovanu who firstly married Profira Bals and later Anica Bogdan,but was just missed in genealogy table...

P.S.When titles are concerned there must be a distinction between Ruling Princes and just Princes because,for example if one is a Prince of Moldavia who rules the country,from the Sturdza family for example,he is a Ruling Prince and while he rules his children are Princes and Princesses of Moldavia,but when they are deposed ex-ruling Prince and his descendants will be all just Princes and Princesses Sturdza(which makes ex-ruler just Head of his family) in order to make distinction with the new ruling family in Moldavia...

Just like in Serbia,while Prince Alexander Karadjordjevic was ruling the country from 1842-1858 his children were at that time Princes and Princesses of Serbia while the ex-ruling Prince Milos,his wife and descendants were then just Princes and Princesses Obrenovic and when Milos returned to rule the country then his children were again Princes and Princesses of Serbia and Alexanders were just Princes and Princesses Karadjordjevic...


Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2010, 12:31:24 AM »
I have found that her grandfather Prince Nicolae Sturdza married 3 times...firstly to Princess Marghiolita Ghika-Comanesti in 1824,secondly to C.Sturdza and thirdly to Maria Rosetti-Roznovanu which could mean that Maria as a third wife and presumably younger then her husband was born after 1799 which would make Anica Bogdan her mother and Natalia's great-grandmother presumably that Maria's father was Prince Iordache Rosetti-Roznovanu which I find highly likely due to the fact that wife of Prince Ioan Sturdza 1761-1842,who ruled in Moldavia from 1822-1828 was Princess Ecaterina Rosetti-Roznovanu,who lived from 1764-1847 and from the same Roznovanu line...

If something will help your search I found that Ioann Keshko was mayor of the town of Kishinev or Chişinău in Romanian and later president(Marshal as the call it)of the nobility of Bessarabia while his wife Natalia Bals died in 1830 of cholera...you can also find his name in the stone of Catholic church from 1840 in Kishinev under the name of "Joanne Keszko" written in Latin...

http://www.bessarabia.ru/k-k3.jpg

I also found a very interesting fact that direct ancestors of Queen Natalia were Constantin Keshko and Irina Buzny(Бузни in Russian),daughter of Ilya Buzny who took his wife's family name...Irina Buzny was sister of Konstantin Buzni who is a direct ancestor of senior albeit collateral branch of Karadjordjevic family...



Line of Iliya Buzny to Natalia Keshko and Obrenovic family:



Iliya Buzny,born around 1700=Klotshera Buzny
I
Irina Buzny=Konstantin Keshko
I
__________=__________(could be 1 or 2 generations empty until Ioann Keshko-don't know)
I
Ioann Keshko,after 1840=Natalia Bals(1812-1830)
I
Peter Keshko(1830-1865)=Princess Pulcheria Sturdza(1831-1874)
I
Natalia Keshko(1859-1941)=King Milan of Serbia(1854-1901)




Line of Ilya Buzny to Aleksa,Claimant to the Serbian Throne and Karadjordjevic family:




Iliya Buzny,born around 1700=Klotshera Buzny
I
Konstantin Buzny(1740/1750-1821)=Smaranda,of a greek noble family
I
Viktoria Buzny,died in 1824=Nikolai Trokin-Marshal of the Russian Court
I
Maria Trokin(1806-1827)=Aleksa Karadjordjevic(1801-1830)
I
Prince George Karadjordjevic(1827-1884)=Sarka Anastasijevic,daughter of Misa Anastasijevic,one of the richest merchants
I                                                                                            
Prince Aleksa Karadjordjevic,Claimant to the Serbian Throne(1859-1920)=Myra Abigail Pankhurst(1859-1938)

      

If you want to know more about maybe Keshko or Kesko ancestors try to write an e-mail here because they say it is possible to know a family tree from 300 years ago until today:


http://nistru-prut.info/index.php?mode=ngenprez&prez=gen&lang=eng&namegen=Kesco


.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 12:55:30 AM by Marc »

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
Some more information about Queen Natalia's Sturdza ancestry:


                Boyar Matei Sturdza(born around 1600)=Anastasia Mihailescu
                                                                      I
                                            Boyar Kiriac Sturdza=Alexandra Ureche
                                                                      I
                            Boyar Sandu Kiriacescu Sturdza=Paraschiva Catargiu
                                                                      I
                                                  Vasile Sturdza =Ileana Costachi
                                                                      I
          Prince Ioan Sturdza of Moldavia(1761-1842)=Princess Ecaterina Rosetti-Roznoveanu(1762-1842)
                                                                      I
                                        Prince Nicolae Sturdza=Princess Maria 'Marghiolitza' Ghika-Comanesti(1805-1887)
                                                                      I
                  Princess Pulcheria Sturdza(1831-1874)=Peter Keshko(1830-1865)
                                                                      I
                                 Natalia Keshko(1859-1941)=King Milan of Serbia(1854-1901)



« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 10:05:03 AM by Marc »

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2010, 01:20:01 PM »
The Queen in 1880

Two portraits


Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2010, 01:27:16 PM »
The Queen

Courtesy: foro dinastias

With son
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 01:29:14 PM by Kaiserin Alzbeta Sissi »

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2010, 01:37:11 PM »
Natalia of Serbia


Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2010, 03:05:50 PM »
Thank you for this,the last color one is new to me,but some of those should be in fact "courtesy from alexanderpalace" because I scanned them for this forum...anyway,good thing is they reappear in other forums where people are also interested in history and can't follow this one...thnx one more time :-)

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »
You're welcome. But in fact I saved all of them form other pages, i wonder where they saved them at first

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2010, 09:34:08 PM »
I know :-) really I don't mind it because that is somehow a proof that people are in fact interested in what you post,so,no problem with that ;-)

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2010, 02:15:37 PM »
Natalia and Milan



Alone


Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3730
    • View Profile
    • *Glitter Of The Past*
Re: King Milan of Serbia and his spouse Nathalie Keshko
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2010, 01:37:12 PM »

traditional gown

Standing
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 08:01:08 AM by Svetabel »