Author Topic: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?  (Read 15708 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« on: September 02, 2004, 03:46:03 AM »
Hello   8)
I heard Felix had some Rembrandt paintings, but I didnt found which one exactly, (??)
And maybe u know his favourite composer, well may be we have the same taste....
Thanks  :-*

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4658
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2004, 09:52:26 AM »
They came from the Moika Palace, in St. Petersburg. Felix did not purchase them, they were acquired by the Yussupov family in about 1800. Felix took them out of their frames and carried them out of Russia during the Revolution.  He later sold them in 1921. They are both now in the National Gallery in Washington DC.

"Portrait of a Gentleman in a Tall Hat with Gloves"
http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?1209+0+0

"Portrait of a Lady with an Ostrich Feather Fan"
http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?1210+0+0
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 02:28:13 PM »
Did he sell them? I somehow had the idea he was con and did not get a penny out of them..

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4658
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2004, 02:50:19 PM »
Yes, he sold them in 1921 to Joseph Widener, who later donated them to the National Gallery in 1942.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2004, 05:03:00 PM »
In Greg's book, it tells the story that Widener tricked Felix and did not give him any money. He was supposed to sell them for him, but he ripped him off. In 1923, Felix and Irina came to NY and sued Widener, but lost. Widener then donated the paintings later. On that same trip, Irina also lost some of her jewels she was bringing to America to sell when they were confiscated by coustoms as part of the Crown jewels. Felix and Irina were so low on funds they were reduced to taking scraps from a resturant their gypys friend was singing at, she'd bring them home to them at night, like you do for your dog. They later returned to Europe.

Offline nikolai

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 12:52:30 AM »
The Admin answered this correctly. But the story of the Rembrandts is larger and well researched for my novel hopefully to be launched in 2006. It is the story of these paintings from 1660 to 1942. No one knows when Nikolai Borisovich (the first one) acquired them. The exhibit book from the Pushkin's 2003 exhibit says "sometime before 1805." I place it during the French Revolution as he was in Europe at that time. How they got from the Moika Palace in 1917 to the NGA in 1942 involves the conflict between the Prince and Widener. I have studied the trial and all other available records. It was a typical Russian/American business deal where both were wrong in their motives, but Widener right by interpretation of the law. You will have to wait for the novel to get it all and judge for yourself.

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 01:14:25 AM »
It is so interesting!Did you undestand who was the owner in France?
It seems that Widener desired to get them long before revolution.

Offline nikolai

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2005, 06:44:15 PM »
The story of these paintings is well documented after about 1800, the first Yusupov inventory on record is 1839 however. They are recorded in an auction in 1760 and believed by the NGA to have been painted 1660. Joseph Widener's father, Peter A B Widener, started the collection, developed the trolley system in Philadelphia, and became the richest man in the city. The portraits only left Russian once, in 1895 (I think) for an exposition in Holland. PAB heard of them and in 1905 took his yacht through the newly opened Keel Canal to St. Pete to see these paintings. His offer to buy them was refused. His son, Joseph, knew of them from that. When their presence in London hit the headlines, he went there and bought them in 1921 on contestable terms which is another story.

Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2005, 10:06:25 AM »
Nicolai,
Please help me understand this.
How was it that Felix sold the paintings and then took Widener to court caliming Widener con him?? I am not expevting a very elaborated  answer, just a simple one..

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline nikolai

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2005, 10:27:36 AM »
There is not a simple answer to this as it has even a cultural basis as well as legal. Both sides were trying to keep the painting. Felix wanted to get it back and borrowed money to finance the case with intent to resell it from more money. Widener took a crafty advantage to get the paintings for a low price. Under law of contracts Widener was proved right. Felix was nieve, destitute (relatively so for a prince) and not used to managing money at all. It is really a long story involving the shenanigans of scheming art dealers, arrogant lawyers, etc.

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2005, 11:11:03 AM »
Nikolay, I am very sorry if I wrong - is your story
a little fiction or without any fiction?
I think that Yusupov bought Rembrandt during Ekaterina time when she gave him a task to collect the pictures for Hermitage (and money as well)
I just think that he could not hesitate to take the pictures which he liked very much to hiw own collection but not to buy them for Hermitage when he met this pictures.
As I understand, Holland painture was the most
expensive and fashionable in Europe during Catherine the Great time.

Maybe I am wrong, It is just my personal point of view.

Offline RichC

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2005, 05:12:03 PM »
Quote
I place it during the French Revolution as he was in Europe at that time.



How interesting that the paintings seem to change hands whenever there's a revolution!  

Offline Bsquared

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 07:52:11 PM »
What happened to the Yussopov fortune outside of Russia? Did Felix Sr. and Zenaida leave much when they died?  Bebe (Irina Jr) seemed to be very down and out in Italy in the 1930s and 1940s- I would think she would have had financial resources because her grandparents (who raised her) lived in Rome? I know she was cut off from her parents in France and Grand Duchess Xenia in England during the WWII.    

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 10:31:31 AM »
From what I've seen, they had to sell off a lot of their assets, even some of Zenaida's prized jewelry, to live.  There was always one more thing they could sell.

There is a lot on this in Greg King's book on Yussoupov, "The Man Who Killed Rasputin"

Felix also discusses it some in his memoirs, Lost Splendor

http://alexanderpalace.org/lostsplendor

and in its sequel, which is only in French and out of print.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4658
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 11:25:01 AM »
There was not that huge a fortune outside of Russia. 95% of their vast wealth was in  Russia in 1917. While they could have lived comfortably on what was left, they simply did not know how, and spent money at first like they did in Russia, spending most of the money very quickly.