Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna-younger, her life and relations

Maria Pavlovna and Wilhelm of Sweden, before their wedding.

Maria and Dmitri

Adorable photo. I had seen photos of Dmitri from this session but never this one of the two siblings together.

I think this was taken when they are already living with Ella & Serge.

I think this was taken when they are already living with Ella & Serge.

Marie and Dmitri had spent their summer holidays with the childless Serge & Elizabeth since they were todlers. The Grand Duke Paul willingly forfeited (abandoned) Marie and Dimitri in favor of his mistress Olga Valerianovna & their child in 1902. Subsequently, Marie (age 12) and Dimitri (age 11) were placed under the permanent guardianship of their uncle, the Grand Duke Serge where they remained from 1902 until his assassination in March 1905.  The Grand Duchess Elizabeth then assumed custody of the children. Dmitri was emotionally distraught by his uncle's murder and was apparently terrified that he would be sent to live with his father in Paris. Elizabeth wrote "Dmitri simply sobs & clings to me. His intense fright was the idea of his having to leave me. He decided he must watch over me as Uncle Serge is no more and clings to me to such a dregree that the arrival of his father was more an anguish than a pleasure, the intense fear he would take him." According to the diaries of K.R. the Grand Duke Paul did not want to take the children from Elizabeth. Marie Pavlovna disputes that opinion.

After his uncle Serge's assassination Dmitri spent a great deal of his youth with Nicholas 11 & his family.

It is alleged that the Empress Alexandra decided against a marriage between Dimitri and her elder daughter Olga because of a rumored relationship between her "ward" and Prince Yussupov in 1912/13. Later, during the war, the Empress harshly criticised Dmitri's involvement with Moscow's "fast set" and his affairs with married women. That Dmitri became a ringleader in Rasputin's assassination did not improve his dissolute reputation in her eyes.

Throughout her llifetime Marie Pavlovna had an abnormally close attachment to her brother Dmitri. She made clear he was the one person (apart from her father) that she really loved. Troubled by her intense need for him Dmitri eventually severed close ties with his sister and arranged his life so that they saw one another rarely.  Marie was deeply hurt by his decision.

Do you mean after his marriage to Audrey Emery?

Two failed marriages, no apparent maternal intinct, plus a poor head for business and not knowing what she wanted makes a loser. I found people here are very generous with their accessment of charecters. There is no apparent reason why her marriages failed. Marie was not sexually or verbally abused or even beaten. Most Royal women at the time would stay married for the security of status and financial stability. Do remember it was the norm for royal marriages not to marry for love. Many royal women had to love the husbands they were given. Marie Feodorovna considered it is better to be dead than divorced. It was fool hardy for Marie to chase after rainbows when she had a husband and child that needed her. I think the great sin of Marie Paulovna was that she does not understand responsibility, and flung herself into situations without thinking the consequenses.

Perhaps the problem with Marie Pavlovna was that she made clear throughout her life that the ONLY people she ever really cared for were her father and brother--and neither put her first in their priorities. In fact, both in their separate ways would eventually sever ties with her.

Marie's very limited affections do not make for sound marriages, parental devotion, or satisfaction in life.

Marie was eager to marry her Swedish prince because he was a means to an end.  A made to order chump who represented a phony idea of how marriage could be (if she ever believed it--i.e., read her letters), freedom, self expression, and good times out from under the stifling control of her aunt,--ditto the ability to access her intense fixation on her father & brother at will.

Given the disconnect from reality and the blindsided futility of her goals, why wouldn't Marie Pavlovna remain forever dissatisfied?

Do you mean after his marriage to Audrey Emery?

Dmitri's close ties "break" from his sister Marie Pavlovna appears to have occured sometime after they set up housekeeping together after immigrating from Russia. The process may have even started before then. The precise date is uncertain.

Apparently, the red flags were up early concerning this brother & sister team. Example: At a dance in Moscow, Dmitri & Marie danced SEVEN dances together in a row & the Tsar had to send an equerry to separate them. Source her memoirs. Marie actually touts the all encompassing nature of her relationship with brother Dmitri from the first chapter.

Marie Pavlovna's half sister Natalie Paley was also dysfunctional and in disarray. A very strange & unconventional life, to say the least.  
Both women would have made a fascinating study for a Tennesse Williams play. Prince Lennart later characterized his mother incomplete--an oddity.

Some people think I should not compare Olga Alexandrovna with Maria Paulovna, because she had loving parents and was more balanced. However we all know it has to do with one's attitude towards life......As I said, Marie had youth, beauty, fortune and lots of potential going for her, but messed up her life. Had she took responsibility of her life, it would not have turned out that way.

So what! Marie tried and since she didn't have a loving childhood like Olga, she become cold and self-centered like any girl whom grow up with the feeling of being unwanted and unloved. but shes not a loser. shame on you.

Marie "unwanted and unloved" during her childhood?

According to Marie Pavlovna; "father's love for us was deep and fond, as we knew"--although she concedes that he displayed little spontanious tenderness. Except for summer holidays spent with Uncle Serge and Aunt Ella, Marie and Dmitri were in the sole custody of their beloved father until he abandoned them at age 12 and 11 respectively (Oct. 1902) to abscound with his mistress and their illegitimate son.

Marie Pavlovna was under the exclusive guardianship of her Uncle Serge from Nov. 1902 until March 2005. Slighly more than two years. There is no question that Serge adored and wanted Marie an Dmitri. Quote Marie, "Towards us he displayed a tenderness almost feminine...In his fashion he loved us deeply. He liked to have us near him and gave us a good deal of his time..If he had known the full extent of our devotion to our father it would have maddened him." Marie describes her relationship with Ella as strained and maintains that her aunt's demeanor was "cold" towards her up until Serge's death

Marie made clear that she had a very loving & close relationship with her brother Dimitri throughout her childhood and early youth. Ditto, she was indulged by her affectionate maternal grandparents and Swedish in-laws. She assets that the Empress Marie & Alexandra were always most kind to her when she was growing up.

Princess Marie was also good looking, talented, and immensely wealthy.

MANY in this world should be so fortunate.

Note that Natalie Paley had a very loving upbringing, she was raised by parents who were happily married, she was never under the guardianship of Serge or Ella, her mother and sister survived the revolution,--and she ended up every bit as screwed up as her siblings Marie & Dmitri. Her brother Vladimir was peculiar too. Granted, it is also rumored that Natalie was sexually assaulted when a teen. If true, the details are conjecture. However, not an uncommon experience. It is estimated that one in four women are sexually abused. Most conceal it.
Natalie was also beautiful, gifted, and adored by all during her lifetime.
 
Arguably, there are many people with loving parents who become cold and narcisstic. Just as there are people like Count Lennard who are abandoned by unloving, cold, and distant mothers and became a fond parents to many children. (Lennart had 9 offspring.)

All this is very interesting.

In what way did Vladimir Paley grow up 'peculiar'? And in what way was Natalie 'screwed up'?

As to Marie, she was 14 at Serge's death, which, as we are constantly being told these days, is a difficult age, especially for girls. Maybe a difficult time for her to be living with Ella, with whom she didn't get on.

Ann

I think from what I read about Vladimir Paley, he strikes me as quite normal. He is a poet like his cousin Grand Duke Kostantin of Russia.

Natalie Paley had a film and modelling career, that is much more than we could say about Marie, who lived off the handouts from her ex-father-in-law and son.

As her Aunt Marie (Princess Marie of Greece, Grand Duchess George of Russia) said' she was quite spoilt". As Dmitri had a much calmer relationship with Ella than her.

I think from what I read about Vladimir Paley, he strikes me as quite normal. He is a poet like his cousin Grand Duke Kostantin of Russia.

Natalie Paley had a film and modelling career, that is much more than we could say about Marie, who lived off the handouts from her ex-father-in-law and son.

As her Aunt Marie (Princess Marie of Greece, Grand Duchess George of Russia) said' she was quite spoilt". As Dmitri had a much calmer relationship with Ella than her.

Keep in mind, Olga Alexandovich also had a guardian (her mother) who orchestrated a sham marriage to suit for her designs & purposes. Although a dutiful daughter, Olga made clear throughout her life, that she did not have a warm or friendly relationship with her mother, the Empress Marie. Like Marie Pavlovna, Olga loved her father and brother Michael above all else when growing up--but unlike Marie, she did not love them to the exclusion of everyone else. Olga was neither cold or narcissitic. She adored her husband and children.

Natalie Paley was addicted to "special attchments" with homosexual or bisexual men: Lucian Lelong, Serge Lifar, Jean Cocteau, Horst, Antoine de Saint-Exepery, John Wilson, George Cukor, Cole Porter, etc. Natalie perferred relationships where she was the object of worship, but not necessarily intimacy. An emotional nomad. Natalie also acquired heterosexual lovers, most notably Erich Marie Remarque. Their affair lasted for 11 years, until it lapsed after Remarque became involved with actress Paulette Goddard. Remargue later fictionalized Natalie as "Natascha" in his posthumous novel, Shadows In Paradise. Although the novelist considered Natalie the love of his life he was not altogether flattering characterizing her capricious, self-involved, and tempermental. Noel Coward, who eventually became very fond of "not too steady on her pins" Natalie (actually preferring her to his former lover John Wilson), made clear in his diaries that both Natalie & her Gay husband were acutely alcoholic. In fact, throughout her lifetime Natalie was plagued with loneliness, opium use, alcohol addiction, tranquilizers, severe depression, & seclusion. After her theatrical producer husband John C. Wilson's death (1961--age 62) from early dementia and cirrhosis of the liver, Natalie spent the last 20 years of her life a recluse who either communicated almost entirely by phone or did not respond to phone calls period. According to several sites, wishing to die in "dignity", Natalie finally took a strong dose of sleeping pills in 1981. She had just turned 76.

Arguably, Irina Paley's life was also somewhat irregular.

Marie Pavlovna intimated, that although attached to one another, Vladimir Paley was too "highly unusual" for the Grand Duke Paul's tastes. Father and son did not have a close understanding. It is alleged, however, the Russian Revolution and Lieut. Vladimir's war record improved their relationship. Is it known if Vladimir had a love interest?

Well...Ella was always very nice with children (like with Greek Minny & Felix Yussopov) and had no problems with Dimitri. Maria was a bit spoilt due to the fact that people felt sorry for her having no mother and a distant father (who cared more about his mistress than his own children). Serge wanted to raise his brother's family, but nobody seem to ask if Ellawanted to have two children in close proximity. The children act as a sore reminder that she cannot have any of her own (although the fault may not necessary lie with her). With Serge spoiling the children, so Ella had no choice but to discipline them. It is something that tringed with jealousy that Ella later apologize for. Yes Marie had her heartbreaks, but she was responsible for making bad choices in men. She could hardly blame Ella for her later choices.

According to Marie Pavlona her aunt Ella told her that she had "suffered greatly because of the affection my uncle had shown us so completely"  and confessed herself "guilty of injustices born of that jeolousy". Conceivably, Ella had been the "child" in Serge's house before her place was replaced by Marie & Dmitri. The root cause of Ella's jeolosy was never explained by the principles involved. Interestingly, early on, Serge & Alexander 111 intimated that Ella would not have children. It is unlikely that Serge would have made known to his family that his marriage would remain unconsummated or that it was he, not Ella, who was the problem.

It is also difficult to believe that Marie invented from whole cloth her portrait of Aunt Ella. The first volume of Marie's memoirs was published in the early 30s when her brother was still very much alive. Dmitri had developed a close bond with his aunt and he never contradicted his sister's version of events. Would she have blatantly lied & slandered Ella to his face?

Whatever her faults, Marie did have reasons to feel aggrieved. After having lost her mother, the center of her universe (her adored father) willfully abandoned Marie for his mistress & child and relocated to Paris. Marie also deeply resented her aunt and uncle. The truth is Ella made clear she did not welcome Paul and Alexandra's children in her home--and although Serge made a good faith effort to persuade his brother to return to his children "who needed him", he also desparately wanted custody of Marie and Dimitri for himself and he got it. That sealed Serge's fate as a prospective father to Marie and Dmitri. Any grievance Marie might have logically placed on Paul's head (and rightfully so) she scapegoat--transferred to Serge. In Marie's eye's it was Paul who had became the "victim" and Serge the illegitimate usurper. That's what she wanted to believe. When her uncle was assasinated it was with joy in Marie's heart that she would again have access to her beloved father. Only Aunt Ella stood in her way.

Ultimately, no one got what they wanted in this drama but the culprit of the piece the Grand Duke Paul. Ironically, Marie claimed in her memoirs that the "happiest" time of her childhood was spent with Dmitri and her Uncle Serge at Illinskoe.

Did Ella "pressure" Marie to marry Prince William? Perhaps, but Marie also wrote that she wanted out from under her aunt's control for a myriad of reasons. Arguably, Marie was at least as wilful as the Tsar's eldest daughter Olga Nicholavich and the later did not hesitate to make clear when she was just 18 that she had no intenion of leaving Russia or marrying Prince Carol of Rumania. i.e., Olga adamently rejected a sought after advantageous and significant dynastic alliance. Arguably it is also likely that Nicholas and Alexandra were far more sympathetic guardians to Olga's private interests, than were Elizabeth and Irene to Marie's. In 1908 Ella was preoccupied with taking holy orders & her sister Irene's first priority was her sister's health & interests.

Given her character, temperment, and limited affections it is unlikely Marie would have had a satisfying relationship or a stable life. But Marie wasn't a total "loser". She wrote an excellent and insightful best seller and made her own independent way in the world until she relocated to South America, made unwise investments, & went financially bust. After Dmitri's early death in 1941 she seemed to throw in the towel.

Ultimately, Marie was responsible for her marriages, relationship with her son, and her life's choices.

The point is that Marie had been "difficult" to begin with, while Dmitri was much easier for Ella to handle. Dmitri did not experience any cruelty at the hands of Ella, although it seems that they became closer after Serge's death. There is a photo in Charlotte Zeepvat's book  The Camera & The Tsars"  (in fact on the back jacket) shows a young Dmitri sitting with a smiling Ella in 1908. Yes he did not contradict his sister on her memoirs, but he did not support it either. So it might be Marie's own prejudice against Ella only. In fact her Aunt Grand Duchess George sided With Ella in calling Marie " She was full of life and very jolly, but inclined to be self-willed and selfish, and rather difficult to deal with..." Would the only sister of Marie's dead mother lied about her niece ? Not very likely. On why Dmitri got along better with Ella & Serge, she wrote " Dmitri had a much easier character and taken more of his parent's natures". I rest my case.   

Clearly 'screwed up' is a fair description of Natalie Paley!

I wonder whether all of us (including me!) are being slightly unfair to Marie Pavlovna in comparing her with Olga Alexandrovna, as Olga was really the one member of the entire Romanov family who adapted successfully to exile. Having married the man she loved, once her mother died and she was free to get on with her life, she and Nikolai Koulikovsky settled to dairy farming and provided for themselves and their sons. By contrast, Xenia depended on accommodation provided by George V and periodic financial bail-outs, and her marriage (admittedly already under strain before the Revolution) broke down. After being exiled from Greece, Alice of Battenberg's marriage broke up and she had a serious and prolonged mental breakdown, though she ultimately recovered. The point I'm making is that Marie P was rather more typical than Olga A - marriage breakdowns and financial problems seem to have been fairly standard for exiles.

I don't think that Vladimir not being on the same wavelength as his father means that he was peculiar. My father and brother are very different people and I would not call either of them peculiar! Vladimir was dead at 21, so quite possibly the rough edges would have been smoothed out by time.

Ann