Author Topic: Dracula  (Read 8168 times)

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Offline Nathalie

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 06:32:24 AM »
Well, I dont think on the first lace we should romanticize these "great" people-they might had been necessary to history (Peter), but I'd definitely wouldn't befriend them!
I guess Vlad Tepes is kinda like a national symbol now to Rumanians so he is a bit "cleared". Rehabilitated? Anyway, I don't think, he was that much of an independent political figure beside King Matthias, who was his leader de facto ::)
But I have read, Tepes had this sickness, something with his blood and since nobody knew it in those days, they invented this dracula legend (btw, isnt't dracula means in Rum,. dragon or somethin?)..
Dites-moi, Vladimir Lvovich, si j'avais une amie ou une sœur plus jeune, et si vous appreniez qu’elle…enfin, supposons qu’elle vous aime…que feriez vous á cette nouvelle?

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2006, 08:44:12 AM »
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Well, I dont think on the first lace we should romanticize these "great" people-they might had been necessary to history (Peter), but I'd definitely wouldn't befriend them!

Exactly.  I think one of the most enjoyable aspects of this website is the ability to debate the true nature of power and those who wielded it successfully and unsuccessfully to both good and bad ends.

Peter I and Vlad Tepes are almost textbook examples of two dynasts with similar personalities, similar capacities for good and for cruelty, and similar emotional traumas in their upbringing who, because of differences in political circumstances, were memorialized by history in vastly different ways.

Offline ilyala

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2006, 10:01:02 AM »
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Well, I dont think on the first lace we should romanticize these "great" people-they might had been necessary to history (Peter), but I'd definitely wouldn't befriend them!
I guess Vlad Tepes is kinda like a national symbol now to Rumanians so he is a bit "cleared". Rehabilitated? Anyway, I don't think, he was that much of an independent political figure beside King Matthias, who was his leader de facto ::)
But I have read, Tepes had this sickness, something with his blood and since nobody knew it in those days, they invented this dracula legend (btw, isnt't dracula means in Rum,. dragon or somethin?)..


i have read on various internet sites that vlad had a sickness that required him to drink blood... i don't know any such sickness, and i doubt it vanished into thin air after he died. i'd say it's a way for some people to link vlad with dracula and give it a touch of authenticity. i have never seen any proof, i have never read in a serious historical book anything of such illness. and until i do i will put the whole thing in the 'gossip' category.

as for mattias, he was a great king for the hungarians but like his father, john hunyade, he was a louzy ally for vlad (as i said in the previous post, john had killed vlad's father). while vlad was expecting help from mattias to kick the turks out of his country, mattias (who had received money from the pope to help vlad and start a crusade against the turks) imprisoned him based on a fake letter. while it hasn't been proved that mattias took part in the actual writing of the letter, i believe he wanted to believe what was quite an obvious fake because it suited him (he had no desire to start a war on the turks). vlad spent a long time imprisoned, while wallachia was left in the hands of his brother, radu, who pretty much handed it to the turks.
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline Nathalie

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 03:16:36 AM »
Perhaps there IS such sickness, maybe it is anaemia or other thing, and we don't know about Tepes's because it was prescribed an obviously wrong threatment:-) I can easily imagine, that in those days when the doctors (...) saw, someone's blood is weak, they tell him, ok, drink other people's blood...horrible, but so as was the level of medicinae in those days...

as for mattias, he was a great king for the hungarians but like his father, john hunyade

Oh yeah, sure 8-)-me being a Hungarian I can second that...I had just read a very nice tract about him from the Italian Anotnio Bonfini, very interesting.

As for Transsylvania, it is full of legends (oh, I really gotta go and see it now...I seriously plan a journey there, perhaps next year): like the myth of the "bloody countess", Elisabeth Bathory, who were said, drinking blood and killing young virgins, etc...But most probably, she was an ordinary noblewoman whose farms and catsles were seen attractive by other nobilities so they forged such things against her, that she is a witch, etc and like that they can get her belongings. As far as I can rememeber she was buried alive in a small cage-like prison-she got mad at the end.
Dites-moi, Vladimir Lvovich, si j'avais une amie ou une sœur plus jeune, et si vous appreniez qu’elle…enfin, supposons qu’elle vous aime…que feriez vous á cette nouvelle?

Offline ilyala

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2006, 05:53:04 AM »
i read last night, in a book about elizabeth tudor of all people ( ;D) that dragon means 'draco' in latin. had vlad, father of vlad tepes, signed himself in latin, 'vlad draco', that could be read 'vlad dracul' in romanian... and that would explain his nickname.
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline lady

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2006, 05:19:40 PM »
Thanks for answering, very interesting ones.

ferngully

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2007, 10:03:25 AM »
if you're interested in the subject, try reading 'the historian' by elizabeth kostova. describes a fictional quest for dracula by way of a blank book with a dragon inside and actually humanises him to a degree. bram stoker's dracula was based more on his perceptions of jews, than vlad tepes himself. apparantly the name dracula came from the organisation his father belonged to 'the order of the dragon' or something of the sort

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2007, 01:48:58 PM »
drac = devil

dracul = the devil

"Dracula" doesn't sound Romanian and as far as I know doesn't mean anything

dragon is in Romanian "dragon" or "zmeu"

the only close word [name] is "Draculea", a sort of regional folk nickname [rarely used] for someone who is "devilish"


The word "dracul" means "the Devil" in modern Romanian, I've been told, but in Vlad's day also meant "dragon" or "demon", and derives from the Latin word Draco, also meaning "dragon". So, it could be argued that his Romanian surname, Drǎculea, is derived from his father's title Dracul, meaning affiliation to and/or descent from "Dracul". It is said that all this issue with the dragon comes from the induction of Vlad II into the Order of the Dragon (Societas Draconis in Latin) as a reward to his loyalty to Sigismund of Luxemburg, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Hungary.

About Vlad's ways of ruler -through fear and terror. Well... we must bear in mind that Vlad is born in a family divided into two factions fighting for power -the Drăculeşti and the Dăneşti-. As in Wallachia the crown didn't pass automatically from father to son bit the leader was elected by the boyars, with the requirement that the Prince-elect be of nominally Basarab princely lineage (os de domn — "of voivode bones", "of voivode marrow"), this elective monarchy often resulted in instability, family disputes and assassinations.

Also, there was the struggle between the prince and the high nobility for control over the country. Add to this the two powerful neighbors of Wallachia, the Kingdom of Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, at the peak of their rivalry for control of southeastern Europe, which turns Wallachia into a battle ground. His father, Vlad II, was removed from power in 1442 because he didn't firmly compromize with Hungary in its wars against the Ottomans. So he changed sides and was reinstored to power by the Ottomans until his murder in 1447 at the hands of the boyars, by instigation of Johann Hunyadi. Vlad, by the way, is born when his familiy lives in exile in Transylvania. He and Radu are sent as hostages to the Ottoman empire as a way that the Sultan has to be sure that Vlad senior is going to fulfill his word of vassalizing Wallachia to the Sultan.

Then we have his problems with his brother Radu, who continuously tried to replace Vlad with the support of the Turks, to which he had very strong connections. He disliked his brother a lot, because of his connections with the Ottomans, who he hated for his experience during his captivity.

So, bearing in mind this volatile background, we cannot be surprised if his bid for power includes eliminating all possible threats to his power, mainly the rival nobility groups, i.e. the boyars, meaning physical elimination and by reducing the economic role of the nobility which is replaced by those who manifested loyalty towards Vlad. He also acted against the Saxon cities, allied to the boyards, but also independent and priviliged cities, a power by themselves which was a threat -or at least Vlad thought so- to the prince's authority. Thus he raided them, too. Add to this his attempts to get ride of his Dăneşti rivals and his attempt to remain independent and not getting caught between Hungary and the Ottoman Empire.

A lot of pressure, don't you think?

But all his efforts come to naught when the Ottomans finally attack Wallachia and put Radu in his place. Radu makes a deal with Matthias Corvinus who, sends Vlad to prison. He spends ten or so years in prison till his freed, as Hungary is not quite pleased with Radu's pro-Turkish policy. So he returns to the battlefield and to his demise. He recovers power but he's left alone by his allies. Nobody in Wallachia loves him -his harsh measures made any foreign ruler too look better than Vlad- so he's alone when the Turk returns and he's killed -in battle or murdered, whatever.

About whether Vlad was a psycopath or terror was the way to rule in that time, I'll explain it in the next post, as I think that this is too long by now.




Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2007, 02:10:58 PM »
As it has been said, all we know about Tepes was written by his enemies. Let's remember that some rulers who lived in the same historical period also used terror and violence to achieve their aims. Let's look at them.

We all know who Louis XI, called l'universelle aragne or the Spider King, was, don't we? In curbing the power of the dukes, he re-established the power of the monarchy, and ensured the survival of the French nation itself.  For all his diabolical qualities, he used them to create tremendous good for his country. He suppressed many of his former co-conspirators, who had thought him their friend. For instance, Louis sent cardinal Jean Balue to be kept in a box for eleven years.

Or the very Sultan, Mehmed II, who slaughtered the 300 soldiers who had garrisoned a castle in Greece because they are put too much resistance to Mehmed. He promised safe way to the inhabitans of Gardiliki to slaughter the whole 6.000 as an example for the rest of the cities who wanted to put any kind of resistance to him. In 1464, when Vlad Tepes fought him viciously, Mehmed ordered to kill al the male population of two conquered fortresses.

In a party after conquering Constantinople, Mehmed felt attracted by the beauty of Lucas Notaras' son, who was 14 yo at the time. So he ordered that the boy was brought to his room and Notaras didn't follow the rules. So Mehmed beheaded them, father and son. If Vlad executed the captains who weren't able to conquer Zeiden, Mehmed executed 300 of his jenizars for his failure when defending the fortress of Schabatz in 1476.

And what about Agincourt when good king Henry V ordered to kill all the French noblemen prisoners?

Or Charles the Bold who, during his wars against the Swiss cantons, ordered the execution of the garrisson of Berna in 1476. Or the Venetians, who paid with a ducat to his stratioti by every enemy head that they brought. We could also go on with the witch hunt process that took place in Germany and Switzerland from 1444 to 1450, or we could remember the end of John Hus in 1415 and Girolamo Savonarola in 1498 -both were burnt as heretics-. Or the persecution of the Jews of the XVth century.

Or we could also mention the glorious warrior turned into serial killer, Gilles de Montmorency-Laval, called Gilles de Rais, marechal of France and, heroe of the Hundred Years War, mate of Jeanen d'Arc, one of the wealthiest men in France who kidnapped, tortured and murdered hundreds of peasant children (mostly young boys).

So, Vlad wasn't alone in his crimes, so to speak. Was he a saint? Of course not. Perhaps he had some kind of mental disturbance or some kind of sexual impotence, as it was pointed out by Florescu and McNally (1972). But reducing him to the "psycopath" label is a mistake. There is much more than that behind his crimes and actions.

Watch out. I don't exonerate him of his crimes. I just put them into his context. There ia lot to explain about Tepes and his times.

Offline TimM

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2017, 12:20:31 PM »
Somewhat ironic that one of the actors most associated with playing Dracula, Bela Lugosi, was native to the same region of Europe that Vlad Tepes was.

Offline amelia

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2017, 12:45:15 PM »
Last year I visited Bran Castle (Dracula castle), in Traansilvania. It is very interesting and I recommend visiting it.

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Offline Marc

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2017, 03:45:32 AM »
Well, I have visited also, but Bran Castle has very little to do with Dracula. :-(

Offline Marc

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2017, 03:48:21 AM »
drac = devil

dracul = the devil

"Dracula" doesn't sound Romanian and as far as I know doesn't mean anything

dragon is in Romanian "dragon" or "zmeu"

the only close word [name] is "Draculea", a sort of regional folk nickname [rarely used] for someone who is "devilish"

Dracula means the son of Dracul!

His father was Vlad Dracul or Vlad the Dragon and so he is also Vlad,but Dracula, meaning the son of Vlad Dracul.

Offline TimM

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2017, 07:52:15 AM »
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Last year I visited Bran Castle (Dracula castle), in Traansilvania.

Didn't they base the castle in the silent movie, Nosferatu, on Bran Castle?

Offline amelia

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Re: Dracula
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2017, 07:11:20 PM »
I thought Bran Castle was built by Vlad Dracul.

Eva McDonald
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