Author Topic: Carl Theodor, Marie José (née Braganza) and their family  (Read 98978 times)

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Offline frimousse

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Carl Theodor, Marie José (née Braganza) and their family
« on: June 07, 2006, 08:06:55 PM »
I know we have discussed about Carl-Theodor "Gackel" Duke in Bavaria ( Possenhofen 1839-Kreuth 1909) in some threads, but can we know more about his psychology ?
The fact that he was a reputed ophtalmologist and that he didn't live a "mundane" life was due to his education or not ?
Was he also secret as his sisters were ? What were his relations with his siblings and children ?
He was told to have a very strong personality. After the death of his first wife Sophie Princess of Saxe, how did he manage to recover? How was his marriage to Infanta Maria José of Portugal ?

Offline Linnea

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Carl Theodor was quite shy like most of his sibblings. But he seems to have been able to overcome this shyness as he ran his clinic quite successfully!
He was the favourite brother of his sister Elisabeth and the favourite child of his mother.
Both his marriages very happy. When his first wife Sophie died in 1869, he was very desperate. But after a time, he decided that he must do something good, and thus he became a doctor.

Offline Linnea

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Elisabeth, Carl Theodor (nicknamed "Gackl" by the family) and his first wife Sophie

Offline Linnea

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Offline Linnea

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His second wife Duchess Marie José and their youngest daughter Duchess Marie Gabrielle, later Princess Rupprecht of Bavaria.

Offline Daniela

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Elisabeth, Carl Theodor (nicknamed "Gackl" by the family) and his first wife Sophie

Are you sure, that is his wife Sophie? I've thought that is his sister Helene! :-/

Daniela
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Offline Linnea

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Elisabeth, Carl Theodor (nicknamed "Gackl" by the family) and his first wife Sophie

Are you sure, that is his wife Sophie? I've thought that is his sister Helene! :-/

Yes, I am quite sure that it is Sophie. I have seen this photo in several books and the woman was always entitled as Sophie. :-[

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Elisabeth, Carl Theodor (nicknamed "Gackl" by the family) and his first wife Sophie

Are you sure, that is his wife Sophie? I've thought that is his sister Helene! :-/

Yes, I am quite sure that it is Sophie. I have seen this photo in several books and the woman was always entitled as Sophie. :-[

This woman is definitely NOT Sophie Princess of Saxony. The photo was taken some years after Sophie's early death in 1867 (not 1869, by the way ...).
I guess the woman is Helene. There were only a few people Elisabeth wanted to be photographed with. I've never heard that Sophie was among them, but definitely her sister Helene. Besides that, Sophie of Saxony looked completely different.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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When his first wife Sophie died in 1869, he was very desperate. But after a time, he decided that he must do something good, and thus he became a doctor.

In fact, Carl Theodor began to study because he lost two people who loved so much within four months: His wife Sophie and his brother-in-law Maximilian of Thurn und Taxis. He was devastated, because he couldn't help them.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Linnea

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Oh, MarieCharlotte knows of course everything better.
I should read more books on the Wittelsbach family again, and not so many on the Romanovs. ;)

Offline Kaiserin Sissi

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Re: Duke Carl Theodor & Duchess Marie Jose (Infanta of Portugal) & family
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2006, 06:53:09 AM »
Perhaps the woman who is in the photo is Sophie but, the sister of Sissi and Gackel. What do you think ?

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Re: Duke Carl Theodor & Duchess Marie Jose (Infanta of Portugal) & family
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 10:23:17 AM »
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Are you sure, that is his wife Sophie? I've thought that is his sister Helene! :-/

I have seen the woman on this picture identified as Marie José of Braganza, Gackel's second wife. But the pic being a bit blurry, it is really hard to tell.

Offline Sissi

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Re: Duke Carl Theodor & Duchess Marie Jose (Infanta of Portugal) & family
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2006, 10:39:22 AM »
He was definetely the most balanced and realistic Wittelsbach, I read in a book on Sissi that he was preocupied at the changes Rudolf was going through, I did not know he was the favourite Child of Duchess Ludovika???

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Duke Carl Theodor & Duchess Marie Jose (Infanta of Portugal) & family
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2006, 01:38:31 PM »
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Perhaps the woman who is in the photo is Sophie but, the sister of Sissi and Gackel. What do you think ?

I made a mistake in my post concerning the picture of Elisabeth, Carl Theodor and the unknown woman. This picture was taken in the early 1860's - I looked it up in one of my books. This means: It can't be Sophie of Saxony, because she married Carl Theodor in 1865 which is too late. And it can't be Marie José, because they married in 1874. Besides that, Carl Theodor has already looked quite old when he married Marie José. But in this picture he is a good-looking young man.

So, I think it can't be anybody else than Helene. It's also a fact that Helene loved to sit in pictures of the early 1860's - just like in this picture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Duke Carl Theodor & Duchess Marie Jose (Infanta of Portugal) & family
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2006, 08:41:55 AM »
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He was definetely the most balanced and realistic Wittelsbach, I read in a book on Sissi that he was preocupied at the changes Rudolf was going through, I did not know he was the favourite Child of Duchess Ludovika???

Carl Theodor was indeed Ludovica's favourite child. Marie of Naples once said: "Uns alle hätte sie (Ludovica) für ihn (Carl Theodor) hingegeben."
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth