Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3  (Read 238131 times)

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Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #810 on: August 18, 2010, 03:30:31 PM »
Well I read through all of that and there is nothing that refutes my contention except in one of the comments.  I know that Margaret Thatcher had warning of the intentions of Argentinian junta and unless Margaret Thatcher felt suicidal of course she wouldnt mention that the CIA had tipped her off.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #811 on: August 18, 2010, 03:41:40 PM »
IMO, one would have to had been blind NOT to see the Junta's intentions. They were trying to prop up their own regime.  From my own perspective, it did not really work with the Argentine people. No one really gave a hoot about the Malvinas/Falklands.
 I had no taste for Thatcher at all, but what really frosted me was her actions without consulting the Queen first. Ignoring her constitutional role. The Falklands was one case, Grenada another, for examples.
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Offline Adagietto

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #812 on: August 18, 2010, 04:22:06 PM »
I was merely posting that link for people who might want to see a sensible discussion of the issues, not because it would set out to refute a contention that nobody in this country would take seriously in the first place. It is a matter of some historical interest to know how the warnings about the intentions of the Argentinians came to be ignored.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #813 on: August 18, 2010, 04:30:38 PM »
No disagreement from me, Adagietto. As I recall, I was in  London when the war started and ended,. None of my friends took much notice of it. I was curious, but not terribly interested either. I do remember, however, the look on Her Majesty's face when she and Thathcher were  at some sort of review. It did show  "royal disapproval"
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #814 on: August 18, 2010, 04:58:38 PM »
Well several Britons did take it seriously and still do.  However those who are nationalistic or Thatcherites, I can understand the blindness that comes from normative sequestration. 

Offline Adagietto

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #815 on: August 19, 2010, 03:56:57 AM »
Well, I am certainly no Thatcherite, and I am not nationalistic in any bellicose sense. God knows, the lady has had her enemies in this country, and this idea that she deliberately provoked the invasion of the Falklands to enable her to start a war has never been advanced by any serious commentator here; at the most one occasionally stumbles across it from people sounding off on internet forums. There are so many things wrong with it that one barely knows where to start. In the first place, Mrs Thatcher herself was highly patriotic in an old-fashioned way; unimaginable that she would have enabled a foreign power (especially a South American dictatorship) to take over a British territory, detain its Governor, and assume arbitrary power over its citizens; in view of the subsequent defet of the Argentinians, it is easy to forget how mortifying this was generally felt to be in the UK, it was a national humiliation. In the second place, Mrs Thatcher was not an absolute ruler, and she had a lot of independent-minded people in her government. She could not have worked such a scheme on her own, it would have needed the co-operation of senior members of her government and probably elements in the Foreign Office too. Who exactly? Certainly not the Foreign Secretary, Lord Carrington, an honourable man whose political career was wrecked by the Falklands Affair. In fact, it is hard to think of anyone who would have gone along with such a hare-brained and utterly immoral idea, and nothing whatever has come out since to suggest that there was such a plot. Thirdly, this idea depends on the notion that the Falklands war was an easy colonial war that Britain was bound to win without significant losses. That was not the case, it was an exceedingly different operation, the British losses could easily have been much higher, it could indeed have ended in failure. It is only with hindsight, and with a good of forgetfulness of the actual course of the war, that this could be regarded as anything like an easy war. As it was, some 250 members of the Brisih forces lost their lives, and I very much doubt that the military would have told her that she could count on anything less. To suppose that Mrs Thatcher would have contemplated an appreciable loss of British lives as a way to manipulate an election implies an extraordinary misjudgement of her character. And one could go on and on. This is a classic example of a massive cock-up that could only subsequently be turned to political advantage with the benefit of a large amount of luck. And that is the general view here among people of all political affiliations.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #816 on: August 19, 2010, 07:04:14 AM »
Well first of all there was not complex scheme.  All that happened was a failure to respond to Argentinian sabre rattling by replacing the British military presence that had been withdrawn.  And the one psychological charasteristic that defines Thatcher is blind ambition.  She wasn't called the Iron Woman for nothing.  As for Carrington, he was always a good Tory and would not have been in Thatcher's cabinet if he has shown great independent thinking.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #817 on: August 19, 2010, 07:16:49 AM »
Sorry that should have been iron lady although the name of a torture device may be more appropriate.

Constantinople

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #818 on: August 19, 2010, 07:27:23 AM »
Going into the 1983 election, unemployment was the highest in British history and inflation was extremely high and as Thatcher had been in power long enough to be blamed for these and with no mitigating factors to offset these and factors like closing down mines and facing down the unions had created a situation where it was possible for even such an undistinguished opponent as Michael Foot to win an election against her.  As for her militarism (or ability to select a military solution to solve problems) at one point Thatcher was willing to authorize the use of nuclear weapons against the Argentinians.  Her support of people like General Pinochet who was a military dictator responsible for tens of thousands attrocities to achieve political goals also supports this view.

Offline Emperor of the Dominions

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #819 on: August 22, 2010, 06:25:24 PM »
The comments about the Falklands Conflict are all jolly interesting, but not for this thread I think. Perhaps a Moderator could call a halt, so we may get back to Her Majesty.

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God save the Queen !

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #820 on: August 23, 2010, 09:16:18 AM »
I agree...although how much the Queen agreed to this war is the question.

Offline heavensent

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #821 on: August 28, 2010, 12:22:18 PM »
 Got to be one of the nicest pics of  HM  Ive seen  for a while

go here
http://celebheaven.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=119&p=1016#p1016

.

Offline Emperor of the Dominions

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #822 on: August 28, 2010, 06:27:38 PM »
Got to be one of the nicest pics of  HM  Ive seen  for a while

go here
http://celebheaven.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=119&p=1016#p1016

.

I agree! Absolutely stunning.

R.I.
God save the Queen !

Offline heavensent

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #823 on: September 07, 2010, 01:48:46 PM »
  Two  more  wonderful pics of  HM.....  Im  sure you will agree !

go here
http://celebheaven.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=119&p=1031#p1031

( though no doubt Katenka won't )
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 01:50:38 PM by heavensent »

Offline joan_d

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part 3
« Reply #824 on: September 07, 2010, 02:49:14 PM »
That is quite something - all those American presidents !