Author Topic: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family  (Read 34771 times)

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Offline BorbonFan

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2006, 09:36:48 PM »
Police eavesdropping on VE's conversations in his prison cell in June revealed that he had admitted to being guilty of Dirk Hamer's murder, shot dead in Corsica in 1978. On a phone conversation, VE said that despite not being innocent, he was sure he would foul the French judges and win the trial. He also insulted the Italian judges. For these reasons, VE was placed under house arrest and forbidden to leave Italy. Here is an automatic translation of the Italian article on this matter.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2007, 01:46:10 AM »
Not exactly old photo's,but since the Principi di Venezia don't have their own thread,I post them here.

Baptism of Princess Luisa,2nd daughter of Prince Emanuelle Filiberto and Princess Clothilde:
http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php/zoektype=2&search=09-06-2007%20Baptism

Courtesy PPE/G.Giaume

note:captions should read 2nd daughter instead of 2nd son.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 12:32:47 AM »
Will they ever learn?

Bad press,most of the time their very own doing,has popped-up again.Give 'm that much,they have a nerve.

Both have "decided" to demand the summa of 260 million Euro's from the Italian State as a refund for "damages"since the Monarchy was abolished in 1947.Most Italians don't give whatever for the boys,so there isn't much support,if any,for their claim there.Meanwhile there has been a "counter-attack" in the proposal that it should be the Princes who should be paying that sum to Italy and so repaying the damage done by their family for snuggling up to Mussolini and thus causing havoc and disaster to Italy.

V-E will not return to live in Italy,but E-F will,and intends to spend the funds on projects the Italian State neglects.That is seen as an interference/mingling with government policy of which they should remain distant.And they should.Oh well,they're the risée of tout Royal  Europe already.
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Offline diRimano

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 05:43:00 AM »

I don't think it's necessary a bad thing to ask a refund for damage, if it is limited to the confiscated properties. I guess here in Italy they made a real disinformation campaign. Nobody said that other former royals asked to have the properties back, for example the king of greece. Properties were given back to the royals also in Romania,Bulgary and Germany, so why does it sound so scandalous?
The main problem is that that most Italians are absolutely ignorant about history, and there has been so much disinformation in all these years they now find so easy to have the Savoy as scapegoat, without knowing anything.
So, the television and newspapers started to attack them as if this was a real scandal, while the most important thing is that V.E. would not be (is not) the king of Italy as he likes to think and the 95% here believes, for in the 60s his father, H.M. Umberto II told him very well if he'd have married a non-royal woman he would lost all his rights. He didn't talk to his father anymore, instead he sued her mother queen Maria José for money.
So, for the internal law of the royal house of Savoy, and by implicit king decree, he lost all his rights when he married madame Marina Doria.
As a matter of fact the real heir to the throne of Italy is s.a.r. prince Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta, who's rights have been recognized by all king Umberto's daughters, among them s.a.r princess Maria Gabriella di Savoia.
You can find more infos and documents on the official site of the royal house of Italy, www.casarealedisavoia.it

So, V.E. and E.F. have no rights to ask the properties back - and the refound - because:
1) V.E. has no succession rights, nor has his son.
2) V.E. can't ask for this refound because he would have the right of a part of the properties, for the King also had 3 daughters: sar Maria Gabriella, sar Maria Pia, sar Maria Beatrice, and the princesses always had the dignity King Umberto II had, asking nothing in his whole life, but his people love.

In my opinion, the house of Savoy HAS the rights to ask for something back, BUT this request should be made by all the family members, or the Head of the House, which is prince Amedeo. Stated that they had chosen not to ask anything, following the last king footprints, the problem doesn't exist.

Still, it makes me upset that this request made such a noise here in Italy, & although I must admit V..E. didn't behave well in all these years, I wonder why it's so difficult for the media to make people understand HE WOULD NOT BE KING of Italy in any case.

I can answer myself to this. Prince Amedeo has much more class, elegance and brain than his cousin, so he would have a different impact on people.
Last month he was invited in a tv show, he behaved with such dignity when a journalist said "how should I call him? 'Cause I'll never call him -prince- or altezza reale, titles don't exist anymore here" and he just replied "call me Amedeo".
 This man said (Lamberto Sposini, a popular journalist here) what many people think, what even mr Bertinotti (the italian communist party) said: "Nobility doesn't exist", as if a 60 years old constitution article could cancel centuries of history and tradition, and nobody ever talks of all the good things these people made-

G.C.d.R








Offline gleb

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 02:15:25 PM »
The Head of a Royal Family cannot ask for money to his country, to my opinion. (but to me VE and EF are not the Heads of this Family)

If He does so, He cannot pretend to be loved after.

While He can ask to have back his private residences.

Offline Lucien

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2008, 03:00:47 AM »
The Head of a Royal Family cannot ask for money to his country, to my opinion. (but to me VE and EF are not the Heads of this Family)

If He does so, He cannot pretend to be loved after.

While He can ask to have back his private residences.


EF later stated a symbolic sum would suffice as the previous claim was "not wise".

Recently EF tryed to launch a political carriere by aiming at a seat in Parliament,one of the six seats reserved for italians living outside Italy.
But even tho he travelled around Italian communities in Europe,he only got about 3500 something votes,not enough for the seat.
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Offline Norbert

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 04:28:34 AM »
How terrible to hear all this in-fighting over one of the great families of Europe. Unlike Belgium, the Italian people deceided against the excellant King Umberto who might have been a good sourse of political stability. I presume his exile damaged his family , how quickly the great fall eh?

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2008, 09:42:10 AM »
Does anyone have ant pictures or information? 

Am I correct in thinking that Vittorio Emanuele IV served time in jail or am I confusing him with someone else in the Italian Royal Family.

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Offline José

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2008, 11:57:23 AM »



In the 70's he was arrested for the possible murder of a german tourist in Corsica, but he was later released.
More recently he was arrested for the possible involvement in a scheme combining illegal game, money laundry and prostitution.

At this time, his cousin the Duke of Aosta proclaimed himself the house of the savoy Family on the grounds of the undignified behaviour of V-E
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 02:07:44 PM by Svetabel »

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2008, 01:14:09 PM »


Is this the same Duke of Aosta whose son is engaged to the daughter of Prince Michael of Greece?  If so, do you know if they are still engaged.

What about the son of Vittorio Emanuele IV?  Is he not a product of an equal marriage?  Is he in the succession?

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« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 02:08:05 PM by Svetabel »
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Offline José

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2008, 06:35:22 PM »
Yes, it is Amedeo duke of Aosta.
From his first wife, Pss. Claude d'Orléans, he had 2 daughters, Psss Bianca and Mafalda and Pr. Aimon duke of Puglia, the one who was engaged to Pss. Olga of Greece.
No one has heard of this marriage for a long time.

"What about the son of Vittorio Emanuele IV?  Is he not a product of an equal marriage?  Is he in the succession?"

That's the $ 1.000.000 question.
It was reported that the Late King Umberto did not accept V-E's marriage to Marina Doria, "the baker's daughter".
(Apparently her father was a bread and biscuits tycoon in Italy.)
Therefore the marriage could not produce successory rights, and the duke of Aosta stepped forward and pretended he was recognized as K.Umberto's heir.

But I guess that despite his bad temper, V-E is generally accepted as the head of the house.

Speaking of unequal marriages, Emmanuel-Filiberto also married a commoner.
The problem is that he has 2 daughters and the Savoy family abides to Salic (or semi-salic ?) law and the succession line would pass to the Aostas if he does not produce a male heir.

OTOH since Aimone remains single and not very inclined to get married, the house of Savoy may face extinction in the male line.

Offline Marc

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2008, 06:44:46 AM »
True about Marina Ricolfi-Doria "the baker's daughter" :-) but she has some noble ancestry...She has descended from the famous Doria family(Marchese Alessandro Doria),from de Barberi di Varazze family and also has descended from French nobleman (like her sons wife) such as:Seigneur Jean IV de Tudert de Mazieres,Jean de La Maisonneuve, Antoine du Monceau,Antoine de La Corbiere etc.

Well,also Emanuele Filiberto's wife Clotilde Pascale Marie Courau is a grand-daughter of Count Pierre du Pontavice des Renardieres and thrugh him descended from some noble families like du Plessis d'Argentré-Poilleboust,Tanouarn de Couvran de Pontestant,Counts de Herce and many other...

Offline Marc

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2008, 06:46:44 AM »
I don't say that this makes them equa in royal termsl,but they have noble blood!

Offline Marc

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2008, 08:26:57 AM »
True about Marina Ricolfi-Doria "the baker's daughter" :-) but she has some noble ancestry...She has descended from the famous Doria family(Marchese Alessandro Doria),from de Barberi di Varazze family and also has descended from French nobleman (like her sons wife) such as:Seigneur Jean IV de Tudert de Mazieres,Jean de La Maisonneuve, Antoine du Monceau,Antoine de La Corbiere etc.

Well,also Emanuele Filiberto's wife Clotilde Pascale Marie Courau is a grand-daughter of Count Pierre du Pontavice des Renardieres and thrugh him descended from some noble families like du Plessis d'Argentré-Poilleboust,Tanouarn de Couvran de Pontestant,Counts de Herce and many other...




One more thing,through Seigneur Jean IV de Tudert de Mazieres,Marina Ricolfi-Doria is related to the Staël von Holstein family,Dukes de Broglie,Dukes de Plaisance,Counts d'Haussonville and many other significant noble families!

Offline Lucien

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Re: Vittorio Emanuele (IV) (1937- ?),and his family
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2009, 02:17:43 AM »
The prince took part in this dancing thing....how royal does it get.... :-[

http://www.purepeople.com/article/le-prince-philibert-de-savoie-mari-de-clothilde-coureau-continue-a-etre-le-roi-de-la-danse_a23245/1

Click on images to enlarge.
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