Author Topic: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles  (Read 72252 times)

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Offline pushkina

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2004, 12:34:06 AM »
it began as a landgraviate in 1568; acquired the duchy of westfalen in 1803, only in 1806 did the landgrave take the title grand duke.

in 1816 after the congress of vienna and the swapping of territory did it become the grand duchy of hesse and by the rhine. in 1918 it became the free state of hesse.
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2004, 12:54:08 AM »
Oh and Hesse-Philippstahl-Barchfeld, which still exists...

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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2004, 11:59:06 PM »
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Hi Angie!

I have heard too of "Hesse-Darmstadt" but Hesse and by Rhein is the correct one. However, in the book on the regents of Hessen, the Landgrafs are referred to as "Landgrafs of Hesse-Darmstadt" and their relations, whereas the first Grand Duke of Hessen is referred to as of "Hesse and by Rhein".

The landgraf, Philip the Magnanimous of Hesse divided his territory into four parts between his sons are far as i know, and the youngest who succeeded him was known as George, founder of "Hesse Darmstadt". Louis X became the first Grand Duke of Hessen and Rhine, so is more widely known as Grand Duke Louis I. :)


I thought the correct title was 'Hesse-Darmstadt and by Rhine"? .... ??? And what's the difference between a Princess of Hesse, like Alix was, and a Duchess of Hesse, like her mother? Is it like Emperor or Empress, where if the ladies marry someone w/ a title they are automatically given the female equivelant of that same title?
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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2004, 08:34:38 PM »
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The Grand Duke of Hesse and the Rhine's eldest son would have the title "H.R.H Hereditary Grand Duke", the other sons "H.G.H Prince" and all the daughters "H.G.H. Princess". His wife would be the Grand Duchess.

It is like Tsar/Tsarina and their children Zarewitch and Grand Duke/Duchess


Oh! ok, that makes more sense. Thanks, Thomas. :)
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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2004, 08:43:36 PM »
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it is very odd: i've looked all over for a surname for the hesse-darmstadt house (indeed for all four hesse houses).


[b]There were four houses of Hesse? I didn't know that. What was the difference between them? I mean, obviously there were different people in each, but--- wait were they the ones listed at the beginning of this thread? ???[/b]
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Offline MarquisAnthony

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2004, 11:51:54 AM »
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Royalty do not have last names.

HM Louis XVI was called "Citizen Capet" by the revolutionaries - but it was not his last name. It wasn't even his house name, which would have been Bourbon. HIM Nicholas II was called "Nicholas Romanov" by his revolutionaries - but it was not his last name. It wasn't even his house name, which would have been Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp.

Alexis used "Alexis Romanov" at times and I believe Olga signed herself "Olga Romanov" - and the Princess of Wales referred to herself as "Diana Wales". Alexis and Olga did not have last names - they were royal. Diana had a surname when she was a commoner - it was Spencer. Wales was never her last name, she called herself that. HRH the Countess of Wessex is called Sophie Wessex, but - as she married a Queen's son, she has no married last name - and if she did, it would not be Wessex.

I am frankly tired of repeating this fact - and it is a fact and not an opinion - over and over again. And explaining it over and over again. I have been studying royal history for decades - and guys, it's tiresome for people to be debating something that is factual in nature.

Sometimes there's an issue where an opinion is involved - but this is not one of them. For heaven's sake, let's give this one a rest - okay?



Capet from "Citizen Capet" is technically the house name of the French. The Bourbons are direct descendants in the male lineage of the Capets. All of the Bourbons are descended from: Robert de France

Robert de France, Comte de Clermont was the son of Louis IX and Marguerite de Provence.
He wed Beatrice, heiress of Bourbon. Their son became Duke of Bourbon and the entire line descended form him. Thus they were always dukes of Bourbon were known by their title but they are of the male branch of the Capets descending from Hugh Capet, the mayor of Paris. I think that this would make them one of the very few, if not the only, European house that has had a direct male descendancy from the ancestor who founded the house to the present day.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2004, 04:31:54 PM »
Marquis: The house or dynastic name for the French Royal house was not Capet at the time of the Revolution. It was Bourbon. It was nonsensical to call Louis XVI "Louis Capet" because he was descended from the House of Capet. If you were descended from someone named Brandon, would it then be okay for us to call you "Marquis Brandon" if that were not your name?

Offline Jane

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2004, 05:49:25 PM »
Besides, wasn't the whole point of calling Louis XVI "Citizen Capet" to insult and degrade him?  :)

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2004, 06:45:46 PM »
Jane :)

  Well, I think that in calling Louis Citizen Capet, they were reinforcing the notion that his previous status as monarch was no longer valid... he was no longer King! Whether this would be taken as an insult would rather depend on what side of this situation one might feel more simpathy--Royalist or Republican.

Last names are a more modern notion than most people may realize.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2004, 10:46:16 PM »
Indeed, one of the reasons royalty does generally not have surnames is that royalty and royal houses predate surnames!

Offline Marc

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2005, 05:55:07 AM »
I was just wondering,what kind of connections this branch of family had with other more main branches of the family(Hesse und Rhine,Hesse-Cassel...) and are there any notable members of this specific branch of the family?The same questions goes for exctinct branches Hesse-Philippsthal,Hesse-Homburg...Thanks

Offline Paul

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2005, 11:13:45 AM »
Here's a link for the technical connections between the Kassel, Darmstadt, and other Hessian families. The root site is a wonderful treasure for genealogical data on all of the European royal families, btw.

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brabant/hesse.html

Just point & click on Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld.

In all of my readings, I don't recall many references to this family. It doesn't sound as though they interacted very closely with the major branches. I could be wrong, however.
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Offline Marc

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2005, 03:26:18 PM »
Thanks.I have already seen their family tree,but I was wondering if there was anyone from theese branch(es) of the family who was much more known for him/herself?We know so little about,for example,Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld family,and yet this is the only branch of the family left except Hesse-Cassel,wich is now main branch?They seem to be left behind...

Offline darius

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2005, 06:52:14 AM »
I think Prince Moritz is the current Head of the family. Can anyone supply more information on his life, current role and family.

Offline Marlene

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Re: Houses of Hesse - branches and titles
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2005, 08:48:36 AM »
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I think Prince Moritz is the current Head of the family. Can anyone supply more information on his life, current role and family.


Yes, Moritz is the Landgrave.  His father, Philipp. was married to Pss Mafalda of Savoy.
You will find a lot about the family in my book, Queen Victoria's Descendants.  The family business which includes Schloss Kronberg (an exclusive hotel) is now in the hands of the eldest son, Donatus, who is married to Countess Flora of Faber-Castell.  Moritz is in his late 70s and divorced from Pss Tatiana zu Sayn-Wittengenstein who is the sister of Richard who is married to benedikte of denmark.
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