Author Topic: Imperial Family Handwriting.  (Read 30695 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2014, 06:35:45 AM »
I suppose it would say more, however, if the Grand Duchesses themselves had written it.

Exactly. I've seen this photo before and I know I'm a party pooper, but to my mind this document still doesn't equate with Gilliard's claim. The poem is addressed to "O.T.M.A." not signed by "Otma." The imperial family often used initials in their private correspondence and diaries, but so far as I know they never used "Otma" as a proper name.
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Offline edubs31

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2014, 07:26:06 AM »
I suppose it would say more, however, if the Grand Duchesses themselves had written it.

Exactly. I've seen this photo before and I know I'm a party pooper, but to my mind this document still doesn't equate with Gilliard's claim. The poem is addressed to "O.T.M.A." not signed by "Otma." The imperial family often used initials in their private correspondence and diaries, but so far as I know they never used "Otma" as a proper name.

Sarushka, how often would you say one of the Grand Duchess's wrote a letter for the other three or the rest of the family though? Was it a pretty rare instance? Obviously we have hundreds of letters written by the daughters individually and singed with just their name. I'm just thinking that if there weren't a lot of times that Tatiana, for example, wrote for the four collectively that there also wouldn't have been the need to sign a letter with "O.T.M.A." / "Otma".
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Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2014, 08:22:04 PM »
Most of the letters I personally have saved into my collection are a combination of OTMA or OT or OTM etc. and all of them have individual signatures from each girl. No OTMA. Since the claim that I originally heard was that they signed their Christmas cards and such that way, I think it speaks volumes that none of us have yet to see such an example.

We have the one to "Dicky dear" with the hand being Olga's (I THINK, I'm no expert at identifying their handwriting unless it's Tatiana's, and we all know why LOL) and as I said it's signed by each girl individually.

So the short answer is they seemed to do it somewhat often, in my opinion, so I think your point is valid.

Did any of that make sense? My brain is in a jumble to night.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2014, 10:18:13 PM »
Sarushka, how often would you say one of the Grand Duchess's wrote a letter for the other three or the rest of the family though? Was it a pretty rare instance? Obviously we have hundreds of letters written by the daughters individually and singed with just their name. I'm just thinking that if there weren't a lot of times that Tatiana, for example, wrote for the four collectively that there also wouldn't have been the need to sign a letter with "O.T.M.A." / "Otma".

I have half a dozen examples in my digital collection of letters/postcards with the message written by one GD but signed by all four. In each instance each GD signed her full name. Like so:


I have no idea how many such examples exist, relative to the number of solo/individual letters.
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Offline edubs31

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2014, 11:07:06 PM »
Quote
So the short answer is they seemed to do it somewhat often, in my opinion, so I think your point is valid.

Did any of that make sense? My brain is in a jumble to night.

Makes perfect sense Kass and thanks for your input :-)

Good stuff there Sarushka. Thanks for sharing!

Signing their names through the years consistently in order (as shown here) makes it almost seem impossible that the acronym OTMA wouldn't have popped in their heads at some point and mentioned among each other, don't you think? Perhaps they found it to silly and/or impolite to use the abbreviation on formal letters or more heartfelt notes to family members and friends.

In some ways it seems unusual that it would ever have been used which probably makes sense as to why don't see with anything close to regularity. If each of the daughters intended to sign a note/letter in their own handwriting it stands to reason that they would spell out their full names. Why would Olga, for example, write a letter, sign 'O' and then ask her three sisters to come over to do something as simple and relatively impersonal as penning the remaining 'T', 'M' and 'A'.

Correspondingly the letters I've seen from the GDs written individually don't read like announcements from the group. They seem more personalized making it silly to think they'd sign it with OTMA or anything else other than just their individual names. Olga writing her friend in captivity, for example, is giving an overall picture of their day-to-day lives but much of the content is still personal. It doesn't make a lot of sense for her to sign it 'OTMA' instead of 'Olga' then since the letter wasn't written collectively. Seems to me that all of the daughters wrote quite a bit as well. So if Nicholas stationed at the Front during WWI is consistently receiving letters from all for daughters, to use an example yet again, there wouldn't seem to be much of a need to sign off on something like it's the thoughts and well wishes of all four together, i.e., 'OTMA'.
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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2014, 04:14:39 PM »
I don't think we can conclude too much from Petrov's usage of OTMA. He was writing about all four, thinking of them as a quartet of sisters, and coming up with "OTMA" would seem a natural. We just can't conclude from this poem  that the four girls signed their own  writing this way. In their earlier years , especially ,though, thinking of themselves  this way, or coming up with 'OTMA" ,just strikes me as something they would do. 
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Offline Sanochka

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2014, 04:37:14 PM »
I'm pretty sure it was Massey who wrote in N&A that the daughters oftentimes signed their notes "OTMA."  I took it as fact and have never really given it much consideration - until now.  I, too, have looked at hundreds of notes and letters written by one Grand Duchess and signed by all four - but never have seen a single one signed "OTMA."  Now that I think of it, the idea of any of the girls signing a piece of correspondence "OTMA" seems downright odd.  These were four august personages, and for any to use a signature other than her own  name seems improbable. 

This is looking more and more like a good candidate for the "Myths" discussion.  :-)

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2014, 06:10:16 AM »
Hmm, perhaps the author who said they signed their letters as OTMA was able to see more letters of them and just noted that they really used that collective nickname. Sadly, he/she/they didn't include pictures of letters (for the sake of truth) in the book they wrote.
Perhaps, and I do hope, that Helen Rappaport's book on OTMA will finally show a proof for this OTMA signature. I assume she's going to include this on her book for she might have known lots of OTMA fans are wondering about this. Oh, I hope I won't be disappointed for hoping this ^^

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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Imperial Family Handwriting.
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2014, 08:23:29 PM »
How I wish Tatiana's handwriting remained like this throughout her lifetime!!
http://www.statearchive.ru/assets/images/new_year/fond640_04.jpg
Posted by Joanna : )

Wondering how her handwriting changed so drastically. I am fond of her seismograph-waves handwriting for it reveals her personality and it is her trademark. However, it's a huge problem to read it!


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