Author Topic: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures  (Read 172508 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #330 on: March 23, 2005, 09:56:44 AM »
Sheesh guys--don't pick on tsarista. That's why newbies won't post sometimes.

'Morgantic' was obviously a typo. And some of us aren't Russian orthodoxy/family law/imperial law/whatever you want to call it experts. A simple explaination w/o the snippy tone would've been nice.  :)
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #331 on: March 23, 2005, 10:57:00 AM »
Yep, spelling errors which I seem to keep slipping into for some reason.

"Tsarevich"
"Morganatic"

Remember, sometimes cotton stuffing for a brain doesn't work like it should.  ;D and that goes for the fingers on the keyboard.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #332 on: March 23, 2005, 11:21:10 AM »
I dug out my dictionary to see the def. of "morganatic".  It doesn't say anything about if a marriage is in a church or by a priest or minister.  It says, "marriage" then goes on to say that there is added to this marriage an agreement that the offspring do not inherit titles or estates of the spouce of highter rank.

Please correct me if I have missinterupted the def..

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Macedonsky

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #333 on: March 23, 2005, 11:21:14 AM »
Quote
Yep, spelling errors which I seem to keep slipping into for some reason.

"Tsarevich"

Good spelling for wrong title. George Alexandrovich never was Tsarevich. He was Caesarevich or (if you prefer) Tsesarevich. Compare:
Tsarevich
Tsesarevich
Different titles.

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #334 on: March 23, 2005, 11:32:58 AM »
Macedonsky,  I realize you are new to this forum.  And, so, perhaps have not read the suggestions which our Forum Admin. has set down for us so we don't end up in discussions of sematics of spelling.  Here are a few of the rules:

---

>>...use these standard ENGLISH spellings when posting in the forum UNLESS directly quoting a source.  We know that these words can be spelled differently in other languages, but we want the search to return as many results as possible. So, for example, if you spell "Sergei" as in Russian, the search for "SERGE" in English, it will not be found.
 
NAMES:
ROMANOV
YUSSUPOV
TSAR, TSARINA/TSARITSA
NICHOLAS
ALEXANDRA (ALIX) FEODOROVNA
ALEXANDER
TATIANA
ANASTASIA
MARIE (FEODOROVNA)
MARIA (NICHOLAIEVNA)
ALEXEI
IRINA
XENIA  
KYRILL
SERGE
GEORGE
FEODOR  
KONSTANTIN OR CONSTANTINE ONLY
ANNA VYROUBOVA (ANYA) TANEYEVA/TANEYEV
 
PATRYNOMICS ARE ONLY TO BE MALE "OVICH" AND FEMALE "OVNA" OR "EVNA" WHEN AFTER NICHOLAS.
TRY TO USE STANDARD ENGLISH SPELLINGS OF OTHER NAMES: STROGANOV, SHUVALOV, ORLOV, ETC.
 
-----

Just let me know which form of Tsarevich everyone should use and I'll follow what's requested.

Sorry for taking the topic off of GD George for the moment.

And what is the difference between
                       "Tsarevich" and  "Tsesarevich"


AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Macedonsky

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #335 on: March 23, 2005, 12:02:06 PM »
Quote
Macedonsky,  I realize you are new to this forum.  And, so, perhaps have not read the suggestions which our Forum Admin. has set down for us so we don't end up in discussions of sematics of spelling.


Thank you, I already read it. I never discuss bad spelling of names in message boards: here is not scientific area. I even not protest against title Tsar for Emperors of All the Russias although it sounds similar to Queen of England for Elizabeth II.

Quote
Just let me know which form of Tsarevich everyone should use and I'll follow what's requested.
And what is the difference between
"Tsarevich" and  "Tsesarevich"

In short, the difference is that while Tsarevich is old ttitle for every son of Tsar Tsesarevich is new (XVIIIc) title invented after Tsar Peter Alexeevich accepted the title of Emperor. It's hard to said in short who had right for such title (I recently wrote six pages essay on this matter).

If you are not sure whether some Russian dynast hold this title in the time you can just use his Christian name + patronymics. To beginning of XX century old Tsarevich remained only in fairy tales but was revived unoficially for Tsesarevich Alexis Nikolayevich as he was infant.

So I can not recommend you to use or not to use peasant-style Tsarevich. Just need to say George was not simply son of Tsar but as his Tsesarevich title shows - Heir to the Throne.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #336 on: March 23, 2005, 12:09:47 PM »
Quote
Sheesh guys--don't pick on tsarista. That's why newbies won't post sometimes.

'Morgantic' was obviously a typo. And some of us aren't Russian orthodoxy/family law/imperial law/whatever you want to call it experts. A simple explaination w/o the snippy tone would've been nice.  :)


If "morgantic" had popped up only once, it would have been a typo. It kept coming up that way, so it was obvious there was a lack of understanding of the term was, and perhaps a lack of understanding of what it means.

You do have a point about tone, though. We are not always perceived how we intend to be. I don't think I was snippy, but if someone sees this, it was surely not intended.

Even if some of those who post here are considered experts, it's important to remain on one's best behavior - and I appreciate being corrected when my facts are wrong. Maybe others don't, but if I didn't know what a morganatic marriage was, I would appreciate being told.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #337 on: March 23, 2005, 12:18:05 PM »
Quote
I dug out my dictionary to see the def. of "morganatic".  It doesn't say anything about if a marriage is in a church or by a priest or minister.  It says, "marriage" then goes on to say that there is added to this marriage an agreement that the offspring do not inherit titles or estates of the spouce of highter rank.

Please correct me if I have missinterupted the def..

AGRBear


This definition is technically correct. In practice, though, the "lesser" spouse rarely is asked to "agree" as far as I know. It's more like, take it or leave it.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #338 on: March 23, 2005, 12:21:38 PM »
Quote

Thank you, I already read it. I never discuss bad spelling of names in message boards: here is not scientific area. I even not protest against title Tsar for Emperors of All the Russias although it sounds similar to Queen of England for Elizabeth II.

In short, the difference is that while Tsarevich is old ttitle for every son of Tsar Tsesarevich is new (XVIIIc) title invented after Tsar Peter Alexeevich accepted the title of Emperor. It's hard to said in short who had right for such title (I recently wrote six pages essay on this matter).

If you are not sure whether some Russian dynast hold this title in the time you can just use his Christian name + patronymics. To beginning of XX century old Tsarevich remained only in fairy tales but was revived unoficially for Tsesarevich Alexis Nikolayevich as he was infant.

So I can not recommend you to use or not to use peasant-style Tsarevich. Just need to say George was not simply son of Tsar but as his Tsesarevich title shows - Heir to the Throne.


Dimitry - welcome to the AP Forum! You are a most welcome addition. I say, spell as you like, my friend!

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #339 on: March 23, 2005, 12:56:40 PM »
Quote

You do have a point about tone, though. We are not always perceived how we intend to be. I don't think I was snippy, but if someone sees this, it was surely not intended.

Even if some of those who post here are considered experts, it's important to remain on one's best behavior - and I appreciate being corrected when my facts are wrong. Maybe others don't, but if I didn't know what a morganatic marriage was, I would appreciate being told.


I wasn't referring to you Lisa--unless I'm hallucinating there was, what I considered a snippy post, in between which now isn't there.  ???  Your tone was perfectly fine.

I too appreciate being corrected (and am quite often!). I only get my hackles up when I think someone is being overly picky (again I'm just referring here to comments addressed at me in the past).

Tone can be so hard to put across online. What one means to be perfectly civil and polite can come across as stiff and patronizing and sometimes levity comes across as overly-flippant. Maybe that's why I partake of the smileys above so much.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #340 on: March 23, 2005, 03:11:00 PM »
Quote

I wasn't referring to you Lisa--unless I'm hallucinating there was, what I considered a snippy post, in between which now isn't there.  ???  Your tone was perfectly fine.

I too appreciate being corrected (and am quite often!). I only get my hackles up when I think someone is being overly picky (again I'm just referring here to comments addressed at me in the past).

Tone can be so hard to put across online. What one means to be perfectly civil and polite can come across as stiff and patronizing and sometimes levity comes across as overly-flippant. Maybe that's why I partake of the smileys above so much.


I'll try to get the hang of the smilies (paging my children?). I didn't see anyone else correcting, so thank you for clearing up the confusion!

Offline Olga

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #341 on: March 23, 2005, 07:52:48 PM »
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Remember, sometimes cotton stuffing for a brain doesn't work like it should.  ;D and that goes for the fingers on the keyboard.


Really, AGRBear, these quaint little comments are getting old and annoying.

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #342 on: March 24, 2005, 12:36:13 AM »
Quote

If "morgantic" had popped up only once, it would have been a typo. It kept coming up that way, so it was obvious there was a lack of understanding of the term was, and perhaps a lack of understanding of what it means.

You do have a point about tone, though. We are not always perceived how we intend to be. I don't think I was snippy, but if someone sees this, it was surely not intended.

Even if some of those who post here are considered experts, it's important to remain on one's best behavior - and I appreciate being corrected when my facts are wrong. Maybe others don't, but if I didn't know what a morganatic marriage was, I would appreciate being told.



I simply read the word wrong.  I looked at it several times and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.  When it was pointed out, I felt quite dull.  I was aware what the term meant.  I just just didn't see the spelling error or typo.

Thank you, Ella.  I have been here for months and still don't feel totally comfortable posting as yet.  I thought I knew a lot about the IF.  Compared to some of you, I know very little.  


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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #343 on: March 24, 2005, 12:50:50 AM »
Quote


I simply read the word wrong.  I looked at it several times and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.  When it was pointed out, I felt quite dull.  I was aware what the term meant.  I just just didn't see the spelling error or typo.

Thank you, Ella.  I have been here for months and still don't feel totally comfortable posting as yet.  I thought I knew a lot about the IF.  Compared to some of you, I know very little.  




For the record, you were not the only poster to use the term "morgantic". Just as I apparently was not the culprit to whom GD Ella was referring (that person having removed her/his posts) about being snippy.

This is an excellent place to learn more about the Imperial Family, at least I have found it to be so. I find it helps to keep an open mind in these matters.

The topic of morganatic marriage has become contemporary these days, by the way, due to the upcoming marriage of the Prince of Wales.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Georgiy Aleksandrovitch (1871-1899),discussion and pictures
« Reply #344 on: March 24, 2005, 07:17:33 AM »
Quote

The topic of morganatic marriage has become contemporary these days, by the way, due to the upcoming marriage of the Prince of Wales.


I wonder if the Queen ever envies the control the Tsars could place on marriages? If she didn't like it--boom!--right out of the country.  :)

tsaritsa--You're very welcome. We want everyone to feel comfortable to post. It's a great place to learn.  :)
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