Author Topic: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)  (Read 89186 times)

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Offline Annie

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Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« on: September 12, 2004, 08:22:27 PM »
Are there any pics of her with Nicky, or with Sergei Mikhailovich? Or at least some online pics of her? Thank you.

Offline JM

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2004, 08:29:25 PM »
Here are some pictures of Mathilde solo.

http://www.ballerinagallery.com/kschessi.htm

**Edited because I made an amusing mistake that needed correction. 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Jmentanko »

Mary Sue Thompson-Ring

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2004, 10:17:29 AM »
The hyperlink (to ballerinas website) makes NO mention that she was Tsar Nicholas II's mistress (before he married Alexandra).  Most of the posts I've read on this site speak of the Imperial Family as if they're saints - instead of human.  Do we know of any other mistresses that Nicky had ???

rskkiya

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2004, 10:25:04 AM »
I don't think that he had any mistresses after he married Alix... at least I have never heard of any!

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2004, 10:36:11 AM »
Nicholas did not have any mistresses after he married. Period. He was not a saint, he just was genuinely and deeply in love with Alix.

Mary Sue Thompson-Ring

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2004, 11:39:16 AM »
Right!!!...in Europe, love and sex are two different things.  Some men believe it's their right to have their family and have a mistress or 2 on the side.  Taken into account all his past affairs...why would Nicky be any different just because he got married (deeply loves his wife)?  Maybe that was part of Alexandra's mental problems/anguish?  (I just love to get you guys thinking...riled up ;D).

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2004, 11:58:06 AM »
Mary Sue, if you're looking for rabble to rouse, you'll find little of it here. We can become "riled" when necessary, but in this case there's no need. Nicholas respected his vows and respected his wife. During the war, when certain individuals tried to tempt him away from Alexandra by introducing him to other women, Nicholas saw through their schemes and made it very clear that Stavka was off limits to such women. I happen to believe, in fact, that one of the reasons he wanted Alexei by his side was to make a statement against such attempts.

Men--and women--throughout the world go into marriage without any intent of respecting their vows, but likewise women--and men--throughout the world also marry with the intent of being faithful . . . and now and then remain true to this promise! Nicholas had his failings, but he did not falter in his faithfulness to his wife. And Alexandra's "problems" had nothing to do with concerns about not trusting her husband; it was her trust in Nicholas and her religious faith, in fact, that kept her going when all else around her went wrong.

Mary Sue Thompson-Ring

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2004, 12:44:58 PM »
"Someone" believed he had a mistress!
Go to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/880205.stm

Scroll down to:
 
"Saintly or weak?

At a ceremony to be held this weekend in Moscow, Tsar Nicholas II will become the fourth Russian monarch ever to be made a saint.

For many Orthodox believers, he already is one. Miracles are reported on the anniversary of his abdication and at the place where he and his family were killed.

But others in the Church have their doubts, accusing the tsar of being stubborn and weak, of clinging to power and of having a mistress."

Offline Annie

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2004, 12:54:21 PM »
Nicholas gave her up as soon as he became engaged to Alix. There is a story in his diary about it and how he handed her over to his cousin Sergei in a sled in the snow. She was the lover of Sergei Mikhailovich for 16 years at which time she became the lover of another cousin, Andrei Vladimirovich. She had a son at that time and there has been question as to whose it was, Sergei's or Andrei's. But Nicholas did not continue to carry on with her after 1894, and that's a fact.

Mathilde would better be classified as an old girlfriend or lover than a 'mistress.' A mistress is someone the husband takes while married, and Nicholas didn't have one. He did have old girlfriends, as all men do before they get married. Nothing scandalous here.

Reading their diaries, letters and every historical account available, you can see how much in love they were. If anything had gone on, it would come out in these private papers, as it did with his sister Xenia who DID have an affair (and her husband was sleeping with the guy's wife too!) But not Nicholas and Alexandra!

Mary Sue, if you mean this to tie in with your post on the Anastasia forum about Anastasia being by a mistress, that is just preposterous. Alexandra had Anastasia, and Nicholas took a walk out of disappointment it wasn't a boy. That swap story is just as wild as the rumor that her false pregnancy resulted in a fifth daughter who was shipped off and raised by someone else. Hey, that exactly contradicts the fifth daughter story, that says they gave away a natural child, and yours says they kept an illegitimate child of Nicky and a mistress? Neither are true at all. Anyone who has read a lot on them knows their true devotion for each other and their love for their children. None of that happened.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Annie

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2004, 12:55:26 PM »
Thanks for the link JM!

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2004, 01:13:01 PM »
There is frankly zero historical evidence to support a suspicion Nicholas had an affair while married. Frankly, the simple logistics of it would have been virtually impossible once he took the throne. Every single person admitted to the Emperor's presence was pre-planned, investigated, checked, and vetted, not to mention recorded.  It would have been even more cumbersome if Nicholas had wanted to go "out" and see someone "at her place" or a neutral spot as he would have been accompanied by a number of people including the secret police who kept him in eyesight every second he was outside the palace.
One feels the Tsar of Russia should have been able to do what he pleased, but frankly, was so bound up in beaurocracy, guards and servants that he could not even change the color of his socks without disturbing some twenty different people!

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2004, 01:44:23 PM »
Just for curiority. There was a book published in Spain, a biography of the Belle Otero writen by Carmen Posadas in wich she stated, following Otero´s own memories, the she had been Nicholas´mistress. It was so absurd. The dates given for their meetings were impossible, and Otero´s comments on Nicholas´ were utterly false and nonsense. I felt terribly outraged, i must confess, and for a time thought of writing to the author. Then i thought it all too stupid to take care of. May be, Carmen posadas´s book is great about the other parts of Otero´s life, but certainly she could have taken more seriously the subject. Checking her bibliography i saw that the only material on Nicholas she had read was Henry Troyat´s biography(in wich Otero does not appear at all).  

I HOPE she will do it BETTER in her next work.

Offline anna

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2004, 04:55:06 PM »
Quote
"Someone" believed he had a mistress!


That someone in the artikel didn't do his/hers homework. In Dutch we have a proverb for this, but I don't know how to translate in English. Well, even in our paper last saturday, the columnist made a mistake, concerning the upcoming exhibit about N&A in the Netherlands, saying it was Olga's body still missing.

Mary Sue, I hope you don't take everything you read for granted ( or was it to annoy us, we don't).  We know N&A were one of the most loving couples. Nicholas told Alexandra about his relationship with Mathilde, the latter knew verywell it couldn't last forever as Nicholas being in love with Alexandra.

I don't know where you live, but your remark; Right!!!...in Europe, love and sex are two different things.  Some men believe it's their right to have their family and have a mistress or 2 on the side. Strange remark and why is Europe so different?

Anna
Watch your thoughts, they become words. Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch your habits, they become character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2004, 05:43:49 PM »
Mary Sue posts from Texas. As a Texas resident myself, trust me, lots of Texas men have women on the side too! It isn't just "European"...

Offline anna

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2004, 05:58:24 PM »
Yeah, men  :-/  (LOL)
Anna
Watch your thoughts, they become words. Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch your habits, they become character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.