Author Topic: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)  (Read 89149 times)

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2004, 11:14:50 AM »
The Russian Orthodox Church is a very political, internally speaking, organization. They sometimes take a position for a "political" reason, often wholly unknown to outsiders.

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2004, 11:33:00 AM »
This is one of those questions that can't be answered :-/

So,  if it is true,  then would he have returned to Mathilde K. in his hour of need?  Or was she even around at that time?

If it is false,  then this is some iner-church political move by those against making Nicholas II a saint.

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2004, 11:46:39 AM »
It would be a bit late for that, AGR, as bothe ROC's have done so. That is, declared the whole lot of them "saints".
BTW, Penny has explained before, the version of sainthood they have been named, is different than the usual RC way of naming "saints".
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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2004, 05:04:24 PM »
Quote
This is one of those questions that can't be answered :-/

So,  if it is true,  then would he have returned to Mathilde K. in his hour of need?  Or was she even around at that time?


AGRBear


She was living with her new man, Nicholas's cousin Sergei Mikhailovich. I can't believe as angry as Nicholas got over his relations taking divorced and/or commoner wives that he would have considered in a million years having a child by a commoner who would become heir. I believe all 5 kids were the children of N & A and there were no mystery children or extra parents involved.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2004, 02:26:56 AM »
Nikolai was 'encouraged' to have liasons before his bethrothal to Alix.

Mathilde K. in her own memoirs Dancing in Petersburg, she wrote of one occassion (p 63), when the now married Emperor transmitted a message to her via G. D. Serge Mikhailovich, providing the time he would pass by her residence in Strelna. At the given moment she curtsied at his approach, while he provided some gesture of acknowledgement. This is hardly a suggestion of a continuing passionate afffair.

There was never a question of impropriety. All encounters at the Marinsky were done in the company of Nikolai's retinue, and never alone. For Mathilde, his very attendance at the ballet to watch her perform Excelsior exhilarated her (p 93), to the extent she believed it was she who was responsible for the presence of the Emperor.

Although somewhat deluded, her affections were one-sided. I believe Nikolai was just extending a special degree of courtesy and politeness befitting his role, nothing more.

Many years ago I learned of rumors drifting within the Russian community that Andre's son Vova, was actually Nikolai's. However it is just another one of those myths some people enjoy manufacturing to discredit the name of the Emperor.

   


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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2004, 05:33:13 AM »
The best variation of this that I've heard comes in mountains of old (circa 1978) extensive correspondence I had with Robert Speller (whose father's firm published a number of Russian titles, notably Eugenia's Smith's "Autobiography" claiming she was Anastasia, and John O'Conor's "The Sokolov Investigation") and with Eugenia Smith and Michael Goloniewski (a peculiar trio), who all contended-and argued with a futile passion that Anna Anderson was really the daughter of Nicholas II and Kschessinska!

Greg King

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2004, 07:36:52 AM »
Oh boy  ::) :P

From what I've seen, Mathilde's father cried when he saw Nicholas and his cousins come to the house for her, because he knew she'd be a marked woman the rest of her life, used by the royals but they could never marry her, but never able to take a real husband on her own because of that involvement. It broke his heart.

I also recently read that Gavril/Gabriel Konstantinovich  married his ballerina lover in 1917 soon after the government fell, saying all the old rules didn't matter anymore. He must have loved her. While it was normal for the royals to have lovers, they still married 'high' anyway, but since Gavril had, at age 30, not done so I think he really loved her. She also saved his life. He was imprisoned with the others who were eventually shot at the Fortress of Peter and Paul, and she being a friend of Gorky negotiated his release and escape to Sweden.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2004, 11:57:58 PM »
Quote
John O'Conor's "The Sokolov Investigation") and with Eugenia Smith and Michael Goloniewski (a peculiar trio), who all contended-and argued with a futile passion that Anna Anderson was really the daughter of Nicholas II and Kschessinska!

Greg King


Now that is one incredible rumor mill! I wonder how they were able to explain that Vova was actually a girl? ???


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2004, 12:16:35 AM »
Quote
Oh boy  ::) :P

From what I've seen, Mathilde's father cried when he saw Nicholas and his cousins come to the house for her, because he knew she'd be a marked woman the rest of her life, used by the royals but they could never marry her, but never able to take a real husband on her own because of that involvement. It broke his heart.


Sadly, her father probably wept even more after she gave birth to an ex-nuptial son, from a separate liason with yet another member of the Imperial House. :'(


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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2004, 12:33:22 AM »
Quote

Now that is one incredible rumor mill! I wonder how they were able to explain that Vova was actually a girl? ???


No, no, no! :D

They meant, obviously, that MK and Nicholas had a secret daughter-Anna Anderson-they said she was born sometime in 1899-1905-I'd have to find the letters to see what they actually relate in support of this-but I remember thinking at the time-"Oh, boy, you're all pretty desperate to promote Smith et al!"

Greg King

Offline Belochka

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2004, 12:59:08 AM »
Greg,

No desperation. I was just trying to be amusing. :D

MK never had a live birth with Nikolai, I believe we can all accept this as fact.


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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2004, 05:43:04 PM »
What?! :o

Anna Anderson is the daughter of Mathilde K and Nicholas?!?!   Please tell me this is NOT true!


It can't be,....oh deer,...like his grandfather and so,...had a mistress and an illegitimate child,...oh deer. :-/      

 THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2004, 07:49:10 PM »
It is not true.
Cheers,
Robert
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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2004, 08:37:49 PM »
*giggles* :: thanks Robert Hall.

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Re: Mathilde Kschessinska (1872 - 1971)
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2004, 10:15:51 PM »
Quote

Do you remember where you read this?

I am going place this information over on another thread.   I'll return and add a PS to give you the URL.

AGRBear


I think it was Romanov Autumn.