Author Topic: German occupation  (Read 349348 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2006, 06:14:17 PM »
Vlamd- I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for the Russian people who, through tremendous effort and determimation restores their heritage. I know this is an ongoing work with many devoted  to it in various places. No matter the political circumstances. I was indeed quite humbled by the Siege of Leningrad Memorial. I could go on about the emotional aspect of learning the "Hero Cities" the soldier memorial in Moscow, and the pride my dear friend had in wearing his country's uniform.
  And, yes, Versailles pales compared to  TS & Peterhof & Pavlosk. Wheras Versailles was simply neglected,  the Russian palaces were effectivle tried to be erased. I am so glad that effort has indeed failed. I look foward to my return visits. I have not seen and experienced enough yet.
 Cheers,
 Robert
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2006, 07:09:57 PM »
Thank you Robert, for respect and attention to this magnificent town, and honestly it wouldn't be possible, to restore it, without brave folks like you visiting this place, even during Soviet Union time.
You can't avoid our past.
Virtual Pushkin / Tsarskoye Selo

Offline Sarushka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 09:30:12 PM »
I agree with Helen -- "honor" may not be appropriate, but I believe it would be respectful to acknowledge the German war graves in some way.
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Offline Douglas

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2006, 09:32:44 PM »
Yes, I too thank you Vlad for posting the WWII damage photos of the Alexander Palace.

One can see that the entire right entry portico was completely blown away by the bombs.

It took a lot of work to remake that...it's the size of a two storey house.

I also note that at least one of the columns of the cross palace entry is off its foundation.  Either it was nudged back into place or it had to be completely rebuilt.  Quite a job as they are made of brick.

Douglas

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2006, 01:37:17 AM »
some more pictures:









You can't avoid our past.
Virtual Pushkin / Tsarskoye Selo

Offline Mazukov

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2006, 06:41:48 AM »
I, would thing that marking the graves would be an insult to the many who died at the hands of the German army. if anything they should be dug up and sent back to where they came from. they don't belong there. But that is my thought. Right or wrong. Fantastic information vladm.

Offline Douglas

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2006, 11:49:49 AM »
I too would be in favor of removing the remains of the German soldiers and sending them back to Germany.....if that is at all possible.

I wonder if anyone even knows who is buried there in front of the palace.

Are there any records?

The whole question needs to be solved if possible.

Douglas

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2006, 12:46:08 PM »
Soldiers are usually buried where they fell in battle. Witness the many military cemetaries all over Europe. Including the huge Russian cemetary in Berlin.
 As for records of who they are- well, Germans are notorious record keepers so I would imagine there are files with the names of those buried. Somewhere.
 On another note, I look foward to returning to TS and exploring the town itself more. I already have a couple of cafes I like very much, where the food is excellent and low-priced, off the tourist path. I would have never found them without my Russian pal.  He knows all the best places !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline vladm

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2006, 01:40:41 PM »
I too would be in favor of removing the remains of the German soldiers and sending them back to Germany.....if that is at all possible.

Maybe you would think I am superstitious, but I really believe, dead people, should remain at the place they were buried (except Lenin, he should be buried in the cemetery, freak show Commies was running for 80  years, should be over ASAP).
You can't avoid our past.
Virtual Pushkin / Tsarskoye Selo

Offline Douglas

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2006, 04:53:01 PM »
Vlad:

I love your honest report about poor old Mr. Lenin.  I have heard for years now, that they are planning to get rid of him on view in the Old Red Square.  Yes, viewing him is so very creepy....like a circus.

Douglas


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2006, 06:11:59 PM »
I do not think he is even "on view" any longer. I was there on his birthday last May and a few [maybe 2 dozen] faithful were waiting for the police [not an honour guard] to let them in.
I agree, though, plop him in a cemetary, the  man did not want this bizarre dispaly, I think it was Stalin's doing, and look where HE ended up !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2006, 07:29:39 PM »
One of German missiles found in the cellar of the Catherine Palace in 1944:



The Grand Hall of Catherine Palace, as it looked in 1944:



Archival photos taken during the post-WWII restoration of the Catherine Palace:





Offline Sarushka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2006, 09:22:36 PM »
Helen & Vlad --

Those pre-restoration photos are truly a sight! Have they been published (I'd be sorely tempted to buy a book featuring them), or do they come from private collections?
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
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Offline Tania+

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2006, 12:40:46 AM »
Dear Vladm,

As usual you offer unbelieveable photos of stunning impact. Each picture is a story in itself. Thank God for the person who took it upon himself/herself to photo the actual bombing of the Catherine Palace despite the peril and risk it involved. Thanks infinitely to the curator, and all the blessed souls who worked tirelessly to rebuild and recreate the magnificance of the Hermitage, and other beautiful buildings of Russia. I can only imagine the horror of it all, but again the steadfast courage, and hope they poured into their everyday work to rebuild these outstanding sites. Just looking at that picture of the German Missle found in the cellar of the Catherine Palace is unbelieveable. It just stops your heart to think of the misery and devistation all these missles caused. But looking again at the faces in these pictures of those working on these artifacts, etc., one is uplifted once again that good always overcomes evil !

Thank you once again Vladm for your sharing all your thoughts and pictures.

Tatiana+
TatianaA


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2006, 08:11:02 AM »
Helen & Vlad --

Those pre-restoration photos are truly a sight! Have they been published (I'd be sorely tempted to buy a book featuring them), or do they come from private collections?

Sarushka,

The photos I posted are hanging on the walls of the Catherine Palace cellar. I am  not sure if they have been published anywhere... There were more of them, but I didn't photograph them all. Basically, as you walk through the hallway of the palace, they are meant to tell a chronological story of the destruction and restoration of the palace. They are quite startling the first time you see them there, especially since they are enlarged.

I wonder where the ones Vlad posted come from?