Author Topic: German occupation  (Read 390803 times)

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Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #240 on: August 16, 2007, 10:45:54 AM »
very well said FA

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #241 on: August 18, 2007, 11:20:05 AM »
Returning to the original topic again...

As we were saying. I have a silly doubt. Reading something about the fighting at Leningrad's frontline and some papers from my family, I've found some kind, for me, of a mistery.

One of the members of my family was a pilot with the I/Jagdgeschwader 54. He mentions in his diary that he served for some time in a place called Krasnogwardeisk, until he was injured in a dogfight and ended up in a hospital in that place -a city/village (?)- before he was sent back to Germany to recover.

I've tried to find Krasnogwardeisk on a map, but it seems that it's name now is Gatchina. Am I right?

Then, If I'm right, OK, let me ask something and please, be calm and don't get confused, because this is going to be a little mess. I'll try to clarify my point as I go.

If that Krasnogwardeisk is Gatchina and this Gatchina is the place that I think it is, it's the place where Catherine the Great granted to her favourite, count Orlov, who built a castle that Catherine bought again when Orlov died and gave to her son, the future Emperor Paul I. When Paul I became Tzar, Gatchina became an official residence of the Russian Emperors. Do you follow me? I hope so.

Then, if Krasnogwardeisk and that Gatchina are the same place, during WWI some medical hospitals in Gatchina were patronized by the IF, by the Tsar Nicholas II and his mother, the Dowager Empress of Russia, Maria Fedorovna, as well as his wife, the Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna and their daughters: the Grand Duchesses Anastasia, Tatiana, Olga, and Maria -IIRC, we have some threads about his issue.

My question is: Do we know what of those hospitals patronized by the IF were still running during WW2? I know it's a bit odd question, but I'm just curious about it.

Thanks in advance.

It is worth adding, methinks, that Gatchina is linked to the first steps of the history Russian aviation as Nesterov was trained at Gatchina airfield and made his first long-distance flight from Gatchina to Kiev in the 1900s or so, a time when the aviation industry was developing in Gatchina, eventually becoming one of the first centers of aviation and engine technology in Russia.

PS: It's my question clear enough? I hope so.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 11:23:41 AM by Kurt Steiner »

Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #242 on: August 18, 2007, 11:33:34 AM »
This was indeed Gatchina. Of course all hospitals were taken over by the Soviet State once the Bolsheviks came to power. Imperial patronage had of course ceased with the abolition of Tsardom. Gatchina and surrounding areas were largely destroyed by the Nazi Germans. Certainly restoration on Gatchina Palace still continues over 60 years after the end of world war 2. It is interesting to see as unlike Pavlovsk which was also virtually destroyed, Gatchina is still undergoing major restoration. It was also the home of Alexander III and Maria Feodorovna and the childhood home of Nicholas II and his siblings.

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #243 on: August 18, 2007, 12:30:02 PM »
Glad to know! Time to fill some gasps, then!

Offline ChristineM

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #244 on: August 19, 2007, 05:57:19 PM »
During the Nazi occupation of WWII, for the entire period, virtually the entire -remaining - population of Pushkin (women, children and elderly men) was evacuated to Gatchina where they survived - living under canvas, during the winter too - on humble rations provided by Nazi field kitchens.   The food, rather soup, which was very sparce, was much more than the citizens of Leningrad could expect.

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Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #245 on: August 20, 2007, 10:02:20 PM »
Yes it was indeed a truly wretched existence. It is so very hard to imagine having experienced a 'mild' winter at Gatchina.

Offline Nemos

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #246 on: September 10, 2007, 07:54:11 AM »


33 километр это случайно не Таицы.
33 kilometer it is casual not Taisi.

Хотя похоже и на Кировск, Александрино. 33 километр.
Though it is similar and to Kirovsk, Aleksandrino. 33 kilometer.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 07:59:46 AM by Geglov2-3 »
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Offline Nemos

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #247 on: September 26, 2007, 12:38:50 PM »


Если там 20 км то возможно это посёлок Александровка.
If there 20 km that probably is settlement Aleksandrovka.
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Offline Nemos

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #248 on: September 27, 2007, 04:13:42 AM »
Посмотрите на эти фото, естли у кого фото дома на Пушкинской со двора до военное.

Look at these photos, естли at whom a photo of the house on Pushkin from a court yard up to military.





Это трофейный танк КВ, используемый полицейскими частями СС и не только.
It is the trophy tank KV used by police parts СС and not only.

Дом Кучумова начало XX есть, скорее всего должны быть и фото этого.
House Kuzumova the beginning XX is, most likely should be and a photo of it.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 04:21:24 AM by Geglov2-3 »
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Offline Nemos

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #249 on: September 27, 2007, 04:47:15 AM »
Он выглядит сейчас так, но скорее всего это подобие того что было.
It looks now so, but most likely this similarity of that that was.


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Offline Nemos

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #250 on: October 11, 2007, 10:43:59 AM »
Немного фото 4-й дивизии СС "Полицай", есть ли фото чинов дивизии в Пушкине.
It is a little photo of 4-th division СС "Policay", whether there is a photo of grades of a division in Pushkin.

http://pushkin-history.info/fotoalbom-old-1-/3703.html

Эта дивизия вместе с 269 пехотной захватывала Пушкин в 1941.
This division together with 269 infantry grasped Pushkin in 1941.
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #251 on: October 31, 2007, 03:24:39 PM »
Interesting news about the German graves in front of the AP from Petrushka who posted this on another thread:

I've just come back from my second trip to St Petersburg and spent a day at Tsarskoye. The very day we were there they were excavating the little flower bed in front of the AP.  I have photos which I'll get up in the next couple of days. They were indeed excavating the graves and had removed four or five sets of human remains whilst we were there.  I ventured to talk to the burly russians conducting the dig (they certainly didn't give the impression of archeologists!) - I kept asking if the remains were SS and indeed as everyone has always suggested they are.  One of the diggers even brought over an 'Erkennungsmarke' (a German dog-tag) on which you could make out some sort of name or regiment and the very clear 'SS' runes.  It also stated it was a Feldgendarmerie - military police unit.  Erkennungsmarkes are designed to be broken in two once the wearer is dead, so that one half remains with the body and the other is sent to the regiment HQ or similar to be recorded.  The one that he showed me had been split.
Anyway, the guys doing the digging were pulling out bones all over the place and putting the remians in blue plastic sacks - you'll see in the photos when I get them up.  There were a number of skulls etc.  I don't know whether the digging was purely to clear the ground for something else or a genuine excavation but I will say there wasn't a huge amount of respect being shown to the remains  --  although considering what the Nazi's (partcularly the SS) did to Russia and indeed the palaces themselves, I can't say I felt much sorrow!

Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #252 on: October 31, 2007, 06:58:01 PM »
Well who knows maybe the families will get the bones back.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #253 on: October 31, 2007, 08:42:38 PM »
I have the utmost respect for those who died in unform, no matter what side they fought on. I find it interesting, however, that when Soviet remains are dis-interred, the Moscow government raises all sorts of objections. When the Soviet dis-engagemnt from Eastern Europe was being negiotiated,  it was sacrosanct that  Red Army cemetary and memorials be protected  under the new regimes. Bones are just that- bones. whether imperial or common man [or woman] in uniform. Respect should be given to all who died, for whatever reason.  And Dmitry, do nor EVER tell me I need to read more.
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Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2007, 03:05:42 AM »
Reading is something if you are interested in a topic you continue for a lifetime. That is the key to learning.