Author Topic: German occupation  (Read 402427 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #165 on: July 25, 2007, 07:54:24 PM »
There are war graves all over the world. Winners and losers.  No one is defending the Nazis nor their actions.  It is simply a desire to respect the burial places of  men [and perhaps women] who died in uniform, in service to their country- however misguided that country may have been. 

In the Smolensk district there are plans to construct a memorial cemetery to the nazi soldiers.

In Germany there are numerous war graves of the fallen Red Army soldiers that are being tended by the German government.

Margarita


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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #166 on: July 25, 2007, 08:01:46 PM »
Please remember, that not all German soldiers were Nazis.  Not all Russian soldiers were Communists either. The vast majority were simple conscripts, doing what they thought was their duty.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #167 on: July 25, 2007, 09:54:04 PM »

 One picture of the Seige Memorial.
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Offline Mari

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #168 on: July 26, 2007, 01:40:43 AM »
Great  pictures!     Its true that many of the German Soldiers were not Nazi...my Grandfather told a story about Prisioners of War. He thought another Officer had walked up behind him and this voice said "Man, I can't wait to get home." He turned around to acknowledge the feeling and he was looking at a German Prisioner who had not grown up in Germany but his Mother was German and so he went to fight. And mind home was not Germany....

I also had a History Professor who had been in Intelligence embanked with the Russian Army in WWII who used to tell us stories about what it was like.  But these men were not bitter against the Germans  even though they fought them for the whole War. 

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #169 on: July 26, 2007, 06:35:07 AM »

 Another picture of the memorial. It is quite moving, especially when seen with a native of the city.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #170 on: July 27, 2007, 01:47:16 AM »
Another picture of the memorial. It is quite moving, especially when seen with a native of the city.

Thank you for your images Robert. This memorial is indeed very moving.

Margarita
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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #171 on: July 27, 2007, 02:14:08 AM »
A few images of the Piskarevskoye memorial site in St. Petersburg.

The words of Olga Bergholts as they appear on the stones:


« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 02:16:35 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #172 on: July 27, 2007, 02:23:08 AM »
The eternal flame with "Mother of Russia" in the distance and the mounds of the buried.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 02:50:47 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #173 on: July 27, 2007, 02:25:21 AM »

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 02:51:41 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #174 on: July 27, 2007, 02:29:43 AM »
                               
"Mother of Russia"

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 02:49:13 AM by Belochka »


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Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #175 on: July 27, 2007, 07:00:17 AM »
I guess you don't "acknowledge" SS men. They were not "normal" members of the German armed forces. It is hard to forgive or forget such vile and deliberate brutality. These SS men were not normal soldiers. They were involved with one of the most evil organisations the world has ever seen. I guess also the Nazi German war criminals hanged after Nuremberg were also not acknowledged. That is why their remains were cremated and dumped where nobody could pay respects to such creatures. I doubt the people of Puskhin would like neo-Nazis coming to make a shrine out of the gardens in front of the Alexander Palace.  I'm part German and speak the language. My German relatives and friends do not ever wish to acknowledge the SS. In fact they are deeply ashamed of them.  I doubt that many ordinary Russians would wish to acknowledge war criminals openly on their own soil considering there are very few families, even today, that do not have knowledge of the loss of loved ones during world war two. Most do not wish to forgive or forget. The SS knew what they were doing when they plundered, raped, murdered and blew up treasures. I admire the great bravery of the former Soviet peoples and what they did to try to pick up the pieces of their broken country. Of course the Germans suffered. I have been to many places in Germany where terrible things happened but nothing as bad as in Russia, nothing - not even the bombing of Dresden and Hamburg and so on. Lest we forget.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2007, 01:49:08 PM »
Once again, you are not understanding my meaning at all. By pretending that nothing happened on that spot, you are in fact, "forgetting".  I say, acknowledge the fact that something happened there, the palace was occupied by the Germans, they had set up a graveyard in front of the palace where they buried their dead, etc. It is part of the history of Pushkin and part of Russian history. Why ignore that and pretend that nothing happened there and that the flower bed is just a flower bed? Again: "acknowledge" does not equal "honor" or "forgive and forget", you are totally misunderstanding the meaning if this.

To me, ignoring historical facts (not acknowledging them) is, to a much lesser degree of course, analoguos to planting a lovely garden where the death camps used to stand and pretending nothing happened there. By keeping artifacts from these camps , thus acknowledging they existed - instead of ignoring them - we are not "honoring" these death camps, we are confronting history, and in fact, as much as is in our power, hoping we will learn from history... The fact that the Germans occupied Pushkin and their graves are still beneath the ground in front of the AP is part of the palace's, the town's and the country's history, and has to be acknowledged rather than ignored. History should never be ignored or rewritten, no matter how unpleasant.

Offline dmitri

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #177 on: July 31, 2007, 08:44:12 AM »
I'm afraid you simply do not understand. It is pointless continuing this. Nobody wants to remember these people, nobody. They are totally unworthy. You do not remember such creatures or pay any respect to them, ever. The Russians certainly do not wish to give these creatures one moment of remembrance. Get it?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #178 on: July 31, 2007, 08:56:22 AM »
I'm afraid you simply do not understand. It is pointless continuing this. Nobody wants to remember these people, nobody. They are totally unworthy. You do not remember such creatures or pay any respect to them, ever. The Russians certainly do not wish to give these creatures one moment of remembrance. Get it?

Oh, I get it alright. I suppose you feel you are qualified to speak for every single person in Russia and the rest of the world, aren't you (not to mention the fact that you continue to twist what some of us are saying in the first place). You are quite a piece of work, dmitri...   But you are right about one thing, it is obviously pointless to continue this discussion with you (and probably any other discussion - due to your extreme rudeness and ignorance), so I am going to happily ignore you from now on...  8)

Offline Tania+

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Re: German occupation
« Reply #179 on: July 31, 2007, 02:47:17 PM »
There are many people world wide, not only in Russia whom stand with your stance not to remember the Nazis with any monument, and I for one join all who express this stance. I also think it very important to state as I did in my previous post, that where death and destruction, genocide, certainly mass murder was given any population, a detailed explanation on the given site be offered so that future generations know what part these monstors offered the population when they were the occupier. Every country has that right to offer understanding of what their peoples suffered through. The only remembrance that we can offer future generations in terms of the Nazi occupation is to be straightforward in telling the truth, making sure not one iota of information is left out.

Again, my input is to the information on Nazi occupation and making sure that those victims of the Nazis are remembered far more in name value than the Nazis, the gestapo, and any other dreaded actions wherein citizens suffered the worst in terms of loss of life and destruction, etc. Yes, I understand implicitly as to what Dmitri has stated and agree, the Nazis need no placques to remember them save that they offered free peoples, no hope or life !

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