Tsarevich Alexei = Lenin's Greatest Secret

Lisa have you met Mrs Tammet? If I may ask why were you involved with this particular claimant?

No, I have not had the pleasure of meeting Mrs. Tammet. From the early days of the net and before, I took it upon myself to check out as many claimants as I could. I have been in touch with Mr. John Kendrick for about 7 years.

Lisa,

I was wondering, when did you see this proof and under what circumstances? What does this proof consist of - are there  written documents about her turning over the samples, or perhaps a copy of a contract about the work the scientists were going to perform? Who was funding these tests? If someone paid for them, wouldn't there be legal repercussions if the scientist didn't follow through and then refused to return the samples for someone else to test?

Thanks!

Helen

1. The proof I saw was in copies of letters provided to me by Mr. Kendrick. The circumstances were that I was researching the claim of Mr. Tammet's widow that Heino Tammet was Alexei.

2. My files on this subject are in my office and to be candid, I am not sure where they are at the moment. I saw enough paperwork to be convinced that in fact tests were being undertaken by the UK team on a number of claimant's samples, including Mr. Tammet. I also contacted one of the scientists in the UK and one in the US to verify that testing was contemplated and at least started. I'm sorry I cannot be more specific, Helen, but I am drawing on memory alone.

3. I was never aware of who was paying for the tests and have never received an answer on this from any of the scientists. I might point out that the scientists had a profound disinterest in this - or so it appeared to me.

4. My guess on this - and this is entirely speculative - is that someone initially arranged for the testing and then changed their mind. Perhaps the Russian government? I really don't know. I surmise this for the reasons you suggest - if someone paid for the tests, then they would want the results. But, what if payment wasn't made?

My interests as an historian were that we get results on as many claimants as possible. So, I contacted another scientist and found out I could get some rudimentary tests done very cheaply. However, as yet, I have no takers.

Thanks for your replies LisaD.

It would seem that if no payment was ever submitted to the UK laboratory, despite the initial agreements, then it would be quite reasonable to appreciate that no DNA analysis would have ever been conducted.

Not surprisingly a professional molecular scientist would be more interested in authenticating genuine Romanov skeletal remains rather than be associated with delusional pretenders. Its comes down to a matter of scientific integrity and of course the allocation of precious time and resources to conduct credible forensic assessments.

There were quite a number of Alexei's running around different continents. It is surely time to let go of these fictious notions and any claimant families remaining must begin to face reality that all members of the Imperial Family met their final brutal fate together in Ekaterinburg.

It is cruel to believe otherwise.

LisaD, out of curiosity how many different claimants were there in your study?  

Thanks, Lisa for the explanations.

 I contacted another scientist and found out I could get some rudimentary tests done very cheaply. However, as yet, I have no takers.

When you say you "have no takers", do you mean that you have nothing to test (no samples) or no more claimants who want to test?  

There have been so many obsessed people and scams around the subject of the Romanovs that it would be natural for any reputable organization or lab to think twice and even three times before touching this subject.  How could you win?  No matter what you announced someone would spread wild claims about your lab and its methods, harass you, sue you - why ask for that kind of trouble? Look how they have never let up on Peter Gill, whether or not you agree with him I'll bet he never expected what was thrown at him!

There have been so many obsessed people and scams around the subject of the Romanovs that it would be natural for any reputable organization or lab to think twice and even three times before touching this subject.  How could you win?  No matter what you announced someone would spread wild claims about your lab and its methods, harass you, sue you - why ask for that kind of trouble? Look how they have never let up on Peter Gill, whether or not you agree with him I'll bet he never expected what was thrown at him!

This is absolutely true, I don't think Peter Gill knew what he was in for when he performed those tests. The poor man has been accused of lying, of conspiracy, of substituting DNA, intestines, teeth, and at best of incompetency. After all that, I think anyone would think ten times before getting involved with testing any Romanov or Romanov-wanna-be samples!!

My sympathies lie completely with Dr Gill and his team. None of the ensuing claimant proposals were forseeable.

Helen is correct, the same laboratory would not want to become involved with claimant agendas.

One of Lenin's "greatest secrets" was his inability to admit to the world that his revolutionary thugs were responsible for eliminating all members of Russia's last the Imperial Family.

Lenin's crime against humanity was regicide and the murder of innocent children and faithful staff. He was never held posthumously to account for these horrendous acts as far as I am aware. 

Dear Belochka --

Once more, you have said it best.  Thanks!

Dear Helen and all:

I think the only reason the world was told about the DNA results for Anna Anderson and that there have been results published for Vasily Filatov and William Lavery (who claimed to be a son of dear Alexei) was MONEY.  In other words, their tests were paid for.  

Dear Lisa:

Your efforts here (and as usual) are to be applauded.   Were you ever made aware of whether Mrs. Tammet even paid for the testing?  Surely she could not have expected them to do the procedure for free.  Or is it living in denial, perhaps her way of preserving intact her husband's charade that he was once that innocent boy?

I am certain that Mrs. Tammet did not pay for any tests to be run. It was originally arranged (and I do not know by whom) that several claimants were going to be tested at the same time as the Imperial Family's remains. I believe Mrs. Tammet's expectations that these tests would be covered were based upon what she was told. She has been waiting over a decade for the results.

Several years ago, I found the funding and an American scientist willing to do testing on claimants. However, because of her earlier experience, Mrs. Tammet declined to provide any samples for this test. Others with whom I worked did their own testing at their own expense and the results were what you would expect - negative.

Personally I don't believe to story of this claimant. He might have other blood disorder than haemophilia, but this doesn't mean that Tsarevich Alexei had it also. Why would his family (Alexei's) care for his health and security so much, if there wasn't danger that he will bleed to death in any moment when cut? It just doesn't make sense. I think that doctors of his age ( beginning of 20th century till 20's) might be less knowledgable, but certainly not foolish about telling dxs .....  

I think the evidence of the massacre argues against anyone surviving. The problem is, with two missing bodies, there will always be claimant stories. I would prefer to see claimants get tested, and if the results are negative, they can get on with their lives and not be wrapped up in a fantasy world.

It seems that Mrs Tammet had certain expectations which were never realized. If she really wanted closure then surely she would have been able to finance her own DNA testing, rather than expect other parties to do it for her. It does surprise me that she seems rather silent on this point after such a long period.

Excuses why she does not want to persue the matter to finality are unacceptable .... unless of course she does know the real answer and does not want to be humiliated after all these years. It is much easier to allow matters to coast along.  

Is the truth too high a price to pay?

Mrs. Tammet resides outside of Vancouver, BC, and is a woman of modest means. John Kendrick might have more information on what is going on with her, but I don't know if he posts or lurks here or not.

[his]

I think the evidence of the massacre argues against anyone surviving. The problem is, with two missing bodies, there will always be claimant stories. I would prefer to see claimants get tested, and if the results are negative, they can get on with their lives and not be wrapped up in a fantasy world.

Personally, I have no problem accepting his reality as his own-ie.if he wants to believe that he is Alexei,okay, he just may have some sort of connection of whatever to this person, but I have problem with acceptance his claims in public.......... Just for the reasons you mentioned above. I too think nobody could survive such thing.. And claiming to survive it as objective fact is unfair to all those who were close to the family, for me it is comparatible with lie by some sort. His personal belief is his personal belief, but taking it to public and demanding being accepted as Alexei is disrespectful. (I tend to see problems more from moral side, not just rational facts..)

Thanks for opinions;)

Mrs. Tammet resides outside of Vancouver, BC, and is a woman of modest means.

But Lisa, you said you had lined up funding for another test, and it sounds like mrs Tammet should have jumped at the chance, instead you said she felt that since she already gave the tooth to scientists some years ago, she wasn't going to do it again. That sounds like an excuse to me. If it were me and if I really wanted to get results, I would try to get them any way I could, if not through one group of scientists then through another, especially if someone else was willing to pay for the tests  . Sounds very strange to me that she would refuse that kind of an offer, especially if she had more samples to provide.