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Topic: Tzar Ivan V and his family  (Read 19267 times)
« on: August 29, 2006, 02:41:59 AM »
Yseult Offline
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Im interested on the tsaritsa Praskovia, wife of tsar Ivan V. If Im not wrong, the marriage was a choice made by the grand duchess regent Sophia Alexeyevna, sister of Ivan V and half-sister of Peter I.

Ivan and Peter were "double tsars". In fact, Ivan was de "senior tsar", because he was six year older than his half-brother Peter; but, really, he had not a chance to rule since he was mental retarded and suffered a poor health. But, when Ivan had eighteen years old, his sister Sophia was persuaded that the deficient young man could procreate...and she bethroted him to Praskovia Saltykova, aged sixteen, daughter of Feodor Saltykov and Anna Tatishcheva.

The couple had five daughters: Maria, Feodosia, Ekaterina, Anna and Praskovia. Maria and Feodosia died in childhood, but the three others grand duchess reached adulthood. Anna became, years later, grand duchess of Curland by marriage, then empress of Russia as Anna I. And Ekaterina was the mother of Anna Leopoldovna, so the maternal grandmother of Ivan VI.

I read somewhere that Praskovia was not a sweet and tender mother to her daughters. When Ivan died, Ekaterina had almost four, Anna three and little Praskovia two years. The three sisters were established with their mother at Ismailov, near to Moscow. It seems that Praskovia neglected their education and was really abussive to the three daughters. Is that true?
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« on: August 29, 2006, 10:09:25 AM »
imperial angel Offline
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That is possible, yes, I think she was in many ways a typical muscovite Tsarina. There were rumours her daughters were not really Ivan's children, but the children of her and a lover. Of course, this was inevitable, this rumour, given that Ivan was mentally retarded and so on. But that doesn't make that true, I am just mentioning that, as it relates to her, not saying it was true. One understands why people might think that though.
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« on: August 29, 2006, 11:55:54 PM »
ilyala Offline
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one must remember that in those days women in russia were pretty much to be ignored. they had no future. especially if they were born in an imperial family. no boyar was important enough to marry them and because of their religion they couldn't marry a foreign prince. sure, things changed soon after that, but at that time this is how it was. so maybe praskovia simply didn't think they were important enough to take care of them. bad attitude, not at all motherly, but in concordance with the times and the place...
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Reply #3
« on: August 30, 2006, 06:33:36 AM »
imperial angel Offline
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That might make sense. I haven't read that much about her and her daughters, but I don't think she was a shining example of motherhood, nor perhaps particularly bad either.Her daughters did have much later importance though, than she might not have assumed they would have when they were growing up. One became Tsarina and another's descendants were on the russian throne briefly.
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« on: August 30, 2006, 08:46:45 AM »
Svetabel Offline
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That might make sense. I haven't read that much about her and her daughters, but I don't think she was a shining example of motherhood, nor perhaps particularly bad either.Her daughters did have much later importance though, than she might not have assumed they would have when they were growing up. One became Tsarina and another's descendants were on the russian throne briefly.

She was not a shining example of motherhood but anyway loved very much Ekaterina, her favourite daughter. Praskovia was quite a character,wise in her way, conservative  but she never opposed Emperor Peter the Great -- she knew how to live at the court.
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« on: August 30, 2006, 11:12:02 AM »
imperial angel Offline
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Ekaterina was the one whose descandants were basically kicked off the Russian throne, Anna Leopoldovna, a rather weak woman, and her son who was Czar for a while as an infant, her whole family was overthrown by Elizabeth, Peter the great's daughter.
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Reply #6
« on: August 31, 2006, 12:10:31 AM »
Yseult Offline
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I have found a portrait of Tsaritsa Praskovia Saltykova painted by Nikitin:



And portraits of her daughters Anna, later Anna I, and Praskovia, who secretly married prince Mamonov:

-Anna Ivanovna:



-Praskovia Ivanovna:



But I can not find a portrait of elder sister Ekaterina, the mother of Anna Leopoldovna.
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Reply #7
« on: August 31, 2006, 08:35:16 AM »
imperial angel Offline
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I had never seen a portrait of Praskovia Ivanovna before. I think she was the prettiest of all the daughters of Ivan and Praskovia actually. She never married I don't think, and died relatively young.
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Reply #8
« on: August 31, 2006, 01:45:11 PM »
Yseult Offline
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Imperial Angel...Praskovia Ivanovna, If Im not confused, married, secretly, Ivan Mamonov circa 1623. She died, I think, in 1633, when her daughter Anna was empress.

Wink
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« on: August 31, 2006, 03:36:24 PM »
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I think it would be 1733! I'm finding this conversation fascinating though!
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Reply #10
« on: August 31, 2006, 10:51:09 PM »
Yseult Offline
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I think it would be 1733! I'm finding this conversation fascinating though!

For sure, it was 1733 Wink I made I big mistake because I was writting so hurrily Wink

I dont know much about the daughters of Praskovia. I mean...I dont know how were really the three woman. If we focused on Anna Ivanovna, it seems that she was a poor educated princess, not well-mannered, with a lot of ignorant and foolish maids. I think that she found some pleasure and delight in humiliating people that she never like, as happened with the prince Mikhail Golitsyn (the story about Ice Palace constructed in a very harsh winter).

But I suppose she was also a victim: daughter of a mad father and an abussive mother, married to a prince that was dead shortly after the wedding, sended to the little court of Mittau to play the role of grand duchess...
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Reply #11
« on: September 01, 2006, 12:20:03 PM »
Svetabel Offline
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Imperial Angel...Praskovia Ivanovna, If Im not confused, married, secretly, Ivan Mamonov circa 1623. She died, I think, in 1633, when her daughter Anna was empress.

Wink

Praskovia-younger indeed married secretly to Ivan Dmitriev-Mamonov, seemed she was slightly mentally retarded, calm and uninteresting person. Ekaterina Ivanovna was quite an opposite character - noisy,chitchatty,arrogant,whimsical.
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Reply #12
« on: September 05, 2006, 08:21:56 AM »
imperial angel Offline
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Ekaterina was the mother of Anna Leopoldovna, and probably the most interesting of the sisters. I didn't know Praskovia I.had secretly married; I am sure this marriage would have been regarded as morgantic.I don't know what her personality was like, but thanks for the info. Anyway, I was just remarking on her looks. I have always thought her sister Anna was plain. How old was Praskovia I. when she died?
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Reply #13
« on: September 05, 2006, 10:38:29 AM »
Svetabel Offline
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Ekaterina was the mother of Anna Leopoldovna, and probably the most interesting of the sisters. I didn't know Praskovia I.had secretly married; I am sure this marriage would have been regarded as morgantic.I don't know what her personality was like, but thanks for the info. Anyway, I was just remarking on her looks. I have always thought her sister Anna was plain. How old was Praskovia I. when she died?

Praskovia-elder was born in 1664 and died in 1723.
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Reply #14
« on: September 05, 2006, 01:38:26 PM »
imperial angel Offline
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What about her daughter, the one who secretly married?
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