Author Topic: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!  (Read 15574 times)

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Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2006, 03:34:35 AM »
Tania, thank you for taking the time to correct scorpio boy's post.  I would have done it myself but I was posting at 1am last night and probably wouldn't have made much of an improvement!

Scorpioboy, I found this statement of yours particularly interesting:

'Some of the real facts we will never know, as she was tested privately with questions we will never hear.. So on other claimant could find out. I have read many books on AA..May I add strongly, that she could not have been "Told. Retainers and Courtiers did not enter the private sanctum of the mauve boudoir for example, and if indeed, she was so clever why didnít she use all she knew?'


You are right.  If retainers and courtiers never entered upon the private life of the family, then how do we know what AA said about life at court was actually true in the first place? There was no one to corroborate her! Her parents and siblings (talking hypothetically here, as I don't believe in AA) were dead, all of the people who had shared their captivity in Ekaterinburg were dead, and those who did know her on an intimate, day to day basis, denied AA.  Pierre Gilliard, the girls' tutor, denied AA.  Shura, Anastasia's nursemaid, denied AA.  Sophie Buxhoeveden denied AA.  GD Xenia and GD Olga, her two surviving paternal aunts, denied AA.  Princess Irene and Princess Victoria, her two surviving maternal aunts, denied her.

The only people of any significance who did support her claim were distant royal relatives who probably knew the real Anastasia more from photographs than real life. 

AA may have seemed like she 'knew' a lot of 'intimate' details, but we don't even know if what she said is true.  All of those who were truly intimate and who would have known if she was telling the truth were dead or denied her flat out anyway.  If she had said 'in private, with just the two of us, my mama used to call me Annie' or whatever, who's to say that's true or not? No could prove something like that was true.  It may sound convincing, but when it comes down to it, anyone could say such things and sound convincing, especially when there's no one of a higher authority around to confirm or deny your statements.

AA was DNA tested, and she was proved to be no relation to the Hessian family, meaning she could not have been AN.  She managed to hoodwink a lot of people for a long time; people who wanted to believe she was AN for their own reasons, which have been discussed many times on this board. If you look at this case objectively, you see the massive, gaping holes in the story.  It's important not to just analyse one side.

Have you read 'The Quest for Anastasia' by John Klier and Helen Mingay? Have you read 'The Fall of the Romanovs' by Steinberg and Khrustalev? I strongly recommend that you read something scholarly and not sensational, as you need to see both sides of the story.  Peter Kurth's book is most people's first port of call, and while very informative, it is reluctant to explore the other side of the story, ie. anything that doesn't agree with the conclusion that AA was AN.  Peter Kurth's book was also written before the DNA testing came out, which is important to remember.  'The Fall of the Romanovs' and several other recent books are good in helping you to understand the sheer brutality of the execution and the remote possibility of anyone surviving such an attack.

I hope that helps you, and thanks again to Tania for taking the time to clean up scorpio boy's post.

Rachel
xx
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 09:20:01 AM by Forum Admin »
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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2006, 10:47:07 AM »
It appears that scorpioboy's first 2 posts and mine and Eddie's responses have been deleted, so maybe this means the 'newbie' is a returning banned person and the mods found out and are trying to stop trouble?

No Annie dear, they were under the Princess Irene thread. Don't worry, I got confused too. Scorpios posts were similar :)
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Offline scorpioboy

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2006, 09:07:01 PM »
okay.....apart from gently ribbing my post!yes i didnt write it well....seems all this topic does is stir up peoples angst..all i am doindg is offering an insight.....ok here goes...yes cortiers and intimates seldom if ever went into the boudoirs and bedrooms et al.now aa was tested..yes and there were certain answers that other royal memebrs knew at the time and dint divulge..she was recognised by several key parties..why people insist on saying no she couldnt be makes me really disheartened.IT really is  amoot  point nonetheles..i refuse to beleive a peasant could fool soo many people and i assure you with all the written proof aa was tested and found to be not lying and psychological tests.assured even the most ardent sceptic she wasnt able to hold a falsehood under hypnosis?another point,aa was tested by photographs..one in particulara room in livadia palace.no one and it wasnt even documented and known only by intimates which had (actually forgotten!}th ecolour of a certain curtain....she was told it was one colour and she corrected the testers!a small detail  that lili dehn,alaxendrias lady in waiting testified was right.back and forth this isuue will go..she was recognised..and then denied..its odd..finally dna is not infallible..and many scientists are finding this out..in conclusion i was sceptic when i actually found out the results...but then,a german lab said"inconclusive"i choose to beleive and leave it at that..yes i ahve read many accounts .both sides

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2006, 09:26:06 PM »
OK, for the second time WHAT German lab said "inconclusive"?? Please provide the scientific citation and publication.


Offline Belochka

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2006, 10:36:38 PM »
... but then,a german lab said"inconclusive"i choose to beleive and leave it at that..

How odd that you scorpioboy prefer to believe in something that is "inconclusive" from a mysterious German laboratory, but ignore the published conclusive DNA results that were presented by internationally acclaimed professionals who pioneered DNA profiling.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2006, 02:15:52 AM »
Umm the link is not working
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2006, 03:04:38 AM »
http://www.geocities.com/anastasiagrandduchess/...this is th esite i found with interesting evidence.......thank you .i will keep abreast of more examples and documented evidence

Why am I not surprised that the link is dysfunctional?  scorpioboy, you should check the site first before providing us with an inactive link. Thank you.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2006, 03:13:54 AM »
ok...too volotile it seems to discuss..."inconclusive "is as it it reads...neither right nor wrong..i cannot cite the actual documentary i was watching..it was many years hence.all i can remember is the first dna test and then it was folowed by another i didnt think to put dates and publications..an opinion pure an simple.yes i choose to beleive aa...thats all...and ill leave it be

With respect scorpioboy a television documentary, that may not be available to the global community, does not constitute "evidence". It is not wise to place reliance on this form of information, since the presenters have the luxury of providing photographic distortions and offer generalized opinions not always based on fact.


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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2006, 06:02:20 AM »
Ah, surprise, surprise, I think this is CalebGmoney's site isn't it 8)
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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2006, 09:35:16 AM »
Yes that link was to Caleb Granger's spurious, incorrect, poorly researched, and intentionally misleading website. Per Forum Rules, that link was removed and ScorpioBoy is now on notice that said particular website is never to be mentioned, quoted, discussed or linked EVER. To do so a second time will result in a 30 suspension from the Forum.  This is all a result of Caleb's continued lying, disruption and violation of suspension repeatedly sneaking back in.

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Offline Tania+

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Re: Try and convince me- I'm undecided!
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2006, 04:06:28 PM »
well, so much for hams and links... : )
Not looking forward to that happening again.
Glad the fat was cut out   : )
Thanks FA !

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