Author Topic: Identification,please  (Read 65248 times)

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Offline José

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 11:53:24 AM »
What was the occasion for this photo ?
A christenning perhaps ?

Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 11:59:09 AM »
Thank you....You may be right. The picture is very bad. I have found it on: wwww.louis.philippe.eu/le_musée. Under this photo the key says as you do for Isabelle d'Orléans. But it  is a very strange document: a little girl with a big body and little legs...

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Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 12:25:56 PM »
I am afraid there are any mistakes in your replly. I don't think that the lady with a white hat is Isabelle d'Orléans (1878-1961),

At first I also thought there was THE LADY in a white hat. But if looking narrowly you can see that THE LADY is a little girl who is sitting on something, you can see her legs. :))
.
As for the three boys I must agree with you, I for some reason forgot about Prince Robert (1866-85).


I succeeded to enlarge the picture.Effectively we can see that the little girl is sitting on a STEP-LADDER ! Her dress makes her a little big...

REMI

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2008, 03:46:46 PM »
Thank you Sveta and Remi!  :) ;D

Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2008, 12:35:49 PM »
The photo is about 1885 year.

Sitting in front, from left to right: Countess Isabelle of Paris (1848-1919) with youngest son Ferdinand (1884-1924), her mother Duchess Luisa Fernanda of Montpensier (1832-98) with Princess Louise (1882-1955), youngest daughter of Countess Isabelle.

Second row, from left to right: in profile at the very left Jean Duke de Guise (1874-1940) (3d son of Duke of Chartre), then Louis Philippe Count of Paris (1838-93), his brother Duke Robert of Chartre (1840-1910), Duke of Montpensier (1827-97), Princess Marguerite of Orleans (1869-1940) (2nd daughter of Duke of Chartre), her mother Duchess Francoise de Chartre (1844-1925), Princess Isabelle of Orleans (1878-1961) (3d daughter of Count of Paris), Princess Helene of Orleans (1871-1951) (2nd daughter of Count of Paris), Princess Marie of Orleans (1865-1909)(eldest daughter of Duke of Chartre), Princess Amelie of Orleans (1865-1951) (eldest daughter of Count of Paris), Infant Antonio of Orleans (1866-1930) (youngest son of Duke of Montpensier), Prince Louis Philippe of Orleans (1869-1926)( future Count of Paris),and with crossed arms Prince Henry of Orleans (1867-1901) (2nd son of Duke of Chartre


All things considered, I wonder wether the prince on the right beside Henri and Philippe is really Robert, son of Duke of Chartres?  I don't think so anymore...
Why? Because this picture was taken at Eu Castle about 1885. Now Robert used to be in bad health. He never would go out of the château de Saint Firmin (his parents's estate near Chantilly), where he led a vegetative life under the care of Doctor Guéneau de Mussy, according Dominique Paoli ("Fortunes et infortunes des princes d'Orléans")
Born in Morgan House, near Richmond (G.B) on january 10th 1866, Robert d'Orléans died on may 30th 1885 to bronchopneumonia.
I think now the picture was taken after his death.
In such a case, this young man with a hat in his left hand before Amélie may be, as you thought, Antonio de Orleans y Borbon, infante of Spain, son of Duke of Montpensier. The two others are well Henri (1867-1901) and Philippe d'Orléans (1869-1926)

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2008, 12:19:51 AM »
In such a case, this young man with a hat in his left hand before Amélie may be, as you thought, Antonio de Orleans y Borbon, infante of Spain, son of Duke of Montpensier. The two others are well Henri (1867-1901) and Philippe d'Orléans (1869-1926)

Well, actually I had compared photos of Infant Antonio and that young man and considered they were very similar. That's why my first thought was Antonio, not Robert.

Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 04:08:10 AM »
Hello, Sveta
You are right once more! In her book, Dominique Paoli, a french writer says:"(...)In may, the young Robert is suffering from bronchopneumonia. His health already precarious will not resist at it. On the 30th, he dies in his parents's arms. The prince BEING CONSIDERED AS A CHILD IN INFANCY, mourning will not be worn. (...)"
Robert was 19 years old, the same age as don Antonio...What do these words mean: "as a child in infancy" ? ( considéré comme un enfant en bas âge, in french...) An understatement to say that Robert was mental defective?
 
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2008, 05:42:28 AM »
What do these words mean: "as a child in infancy" ? ( considéré comme un enfant en bas âge, in french...) An understatement to say that Robert was mental defective?
 
REMI[/font]

I think that means he was mentally retarded. That was a usual result of the marriages between very close relatives.

Offline Mari

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2008, 06:05:41 AM »
Mandie is there a way to enlarge this Photograph?  :)

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2008, 04:00:22 PM »
I'll try a link:
LINK

Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2008, 01:55:42 AM »
I remind that the two last princes on the right are Henri and then with crossed armsand sitting Philippe future duke of Orléans (1869-1926)   /size]

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Offline Mari

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2008, 04:14:51 AM »
Mandie thank you so much for that link...yes now I can see that its a little girl in a large hat. It almost makes you wonder if She's wearing someone else's... like children like to do! :)

Offline REMI

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2008, 01:54:22 AM »


. That was a usual result of the marriages between very close relatives.
[/quote]

Usual result ? I don't think we take out a general rule of this case. Robert's brothers (Henri and Jean) and sisters (Marie and Marguerite) were perfectly sound in body and mind,  weren't they?

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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2008, 09:43:20 AM »


I didn't mean that all children from such marriages were destined to be idiots or mentally retarded. But the cases were usual in such families at least with some children.

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Identification,please
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 05:48:28 PM »


titled: Deux princesses de la famille d'Orléans

I got it from a French website, heres the link