Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 382575 times)

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2004, 07:18:18 PM »
You're welcome. Over the years, I have heard from dozens of purported survivors or their supporters. What I always say now is - you are asking me to believe that they let their family believe they are dead - which is an insult to the memory of whomever they are supposed to be (or have been) - and/or they never bothered to contact their existing family?

Considering all of this, I am more of the opinion that no one survived.

Offline 3710

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to Romanovs)Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2004, 03:39:12 AM »
Oh, please, let's stop here.
Anyone who has ANY idea of what real Family was like would not think for a second that they would sell the survived relative for a bank account or whatever else. I have never met any claimants personally and found it amusing (though predictable) that one would turn up here. I am sure Romanovs have enough common sense not to take all those wild stories to heart, they are part of history, it is inevitable!
It is regrettable that it has caused such a turmoil here. Not the first  and surely not he last survival story, so what?
Galina

No, back to our ''usual business'':

Louise, I have read that Wilhelm has tried to arrange for Ella to leave Moscow after the Revolution via German Embassador (which she refused). Was is not rather nice of him  to care about her after all those years? (Hm, it might be the only appealing thing I have ever read about him in connection with Romanovs)

Offline JM

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2004, 10:16:40 AM »
       It is probable that if they do not care about their past, Orthodoxy or Russia, they are not interested in ruling. Even more than it being up to the Russian people to decide if they want a Tsar. It is up to the Romanovs themselves. All of them with the exception of "GD" Maria and her son seem to have gotten on with their lives.

     It's worth noting that "GD" George is a staff aide and personal assistant to Loyola de Palacio, a vice-president of the European Commission.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2004, 11:29:32 AM »
With regard to the Ilyinskys - and I should make it clear I in no way speak for them - I think it unfair to say that they don't care about Russia or their Imperial heritage.

The funeral mentioned was due to the tragic death of Paula Comisar's teenage daughter. I can tell you that Cincinnati, the city where the family lives, is not exactly teeming with Russian Orthodox churches.

Audrey Emery, Paul Ilyinsky's mother, converted to Orthodoxy and Paul's recent funeral was in fact officiated by an Orthodox clergyperson. I honestly don't know if the entire family other than Paula is Orthodox or not, but one funeral does not a non Orthodox family make.

As far as Russia goes, the family has travelled their at their own expense to Russia on several occasions. I cannot imagine what would make any rational person say that they don't care for Russia. Please remember that for most of Paul's life, the Ilyinskys were not welcome there due to a Communist government. Russia became a republic after Paul was over 60 years old!

Yes, the Ilyinskys are now an American family. I know for a fact that Michael Ilyinsky, the youngest of Paul's sons, is very interested in their Imperial heritage, Russia, and Orthodoxy.

The family is aware that Russia is a republic and not interested in a restoration of the monarchy.

Offline Candice

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2004, 11:51:49 AM »
Quote
      It is probable that if they do not care about their past, Orthodoxy or Russia, they are not interested in ruling. Even more than it being up to the Russian people to decide if they want a Tsar. It is up to the Romanovs themselves. All of them with the exception of "GD" Maria and her son seem to have gotten on with their lives.

      It's worth noting that "GD" George is a staff aide and personal assistant to Loyola de Palacio, a vice-president of the European Commission.
   
This is an amazing discussion and that anyone can participate in.  Thank you for allowing me to speak.
I believe it is up to the people to decide if they do want a Tsar.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline JM

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2004, 12:27:01 PM »
Quote
      It is probable that if they do not care about their past, Orthodoxy or Russia, they are not interested in ruling. Even more than it being up to the Russian people to decide if they want a Tsar. It is up to the Romanovs themselves. All of them with the exception of "GD" Maria and her son seem to have gotten on with their lives.

      It's worth noting that "GD" George is a staff aide and personal assistant to Loyola de Palacio, a vice-president of the European Commission.




    I just want to reinforce the fact that I was not refering to anybody particular in the statement above. It was just a general opinion regarding how it is up to the Romanovs if they want to rule Russia. It was a reply to Miguel C. de F's statement that discusses the fact that some members of the Romanov clan may not be interested in their heritage, Russia and Orthodoxy.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2004, 02:02:22 PM »
Quote



     I just want to reinforce the fact that I was not refering to anybody particular in the statement above. It was just a general opinion regarding how it is up to the Romanovs if they want to rule Russia. It was a reply to Miguel C. de F's statement that discusses the fact that some members of the Romanov clan may not be interested in their heritage, Russia and Orthodoxy.


But, shouldn't your "general opinion" have at least some basis in fact? And shouldn't both you and Miguel be responsible about what you say about the Romanovs (or anyone else, for that matter)?

The problem with sweeping generalizations is that they tend not to be true. I have seen not one shread of evidence that a Romanov descendant is "not interested in their heritage, Russia and Orthodoxy". The person who made this statement cited the Protestant funeral of Miss Comisar as such evidence. I pointed out that this was more likely evidence that the girl died in a place where there are not many Russian Orthodox Churches.

In fact, the young lady in question made the trip in 1998 with her grandfather, Paul Ilyinsky, to attend the belated funeral of Nicholas II. This doesn't tend to support the contention that she or her family don't care about Russia or their Imperial heritage.

My point - please do not assume things to be true when it comes to the Romanov descendants. Please avoid generalizations. I believe they would disagree with your statement that it is "up to them" if they want to rule Russia or not.

The RFA's position is that Russia needs some time to recover from Bolshevism before considering a return to monarchy.

Offline JM

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2004, 02:56:52 PM »
Ah, you make a good point.

However, I was basing my comments only on Miguel's post. These were his claims and I added my opinion. Is it so wrong to address the claims that he belives to be true? I did not condone or disagree with anything he said. I simply said that if there were some members of the family that didn't care about Orthodoxy, their history, or Russia, they probhably would not be interested in ruling.

What I wrote was based on Miguel's incorrect assumptions. Perhaps I should have looked deeper into what he said and realized he was wrong. But, I frankly didn't care.

By the way, my "general opinion" ;D still stands. It is up to the Romanovs if they want to rule Russia.

Offline JM

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2004, 03:19:09 PM »
Maybe I should make my point more clear.

If the Russian people vote overwhelmingly to restore the monarchy and there is a valid heir. Who has the final decision when it comes to having a Tsar? In my opinion, it is the Romanov heir. It comes down to what the Romanovs want.

Offline _Rodger_

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2004, 09:13:13 PM »
In case anyone is wondering, it takes only a single nucleotide difference to exclude a relationship.

To have a mtDNA match, every single nucleotide has to match, and there are more than 26,000 of them.

WARNING!!!!  This post may be hazardous to one's sense of things.  Read with caution.

MMR4th

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2004, 11:31:54 PM »
Rodger.

I respect that your are a geneticist. BUT by your aregument then Kulikovski who has 16169C must not be relaterd to Duke of fife or Xenia sfiri with 16169T.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2004, 08:46:16 AM »
Lisa, you raise a good point.
This discussion is NOT about succession. There already exists a thread called "Did any Romanovs Survive" under the Anastasia catagory and I will ask MMR and all others to please move any further discussion on his claims or related issues to survival of the Imperial family after 1918 to that catagory/thread immediately.
Thanks.
FA

Offline Johnny

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2004, 04:20:00 PM »
It's probably a little too late to pick up on this topic again, since it was being discussed in March. But, I just want to remind all that it is not up to the Romanovs whether they would like to rule Russia or not. It is up to the Russian people, and so far they haven't been very enthusiastic about it ;)
Let's face it! Russia will never be a monarchy again. At least not until Turkey, Austria and Germany have restored their monarchs back on their thrones. Not very likely! Is it? :'( ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline Johnny

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2004, 04:24:10 PM »
Oh, by the way, I just want everyone to know that Alexei Nikoloayevich did survive and had a son who eventually became my father. I have my left big toe as the proof. The ressemblance is striking. And don't give me that DNA crap either.  ;D
Sorry, but I had to get it off my chest.
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline JM

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2004, 05:05:25 PM »
Quote
It's probably a little too late to pick up on this topic again, since it was being discussed in March. But, I just want to remind all that it is not up to the Romanovs whether they would like to rule Russia or not. It is up to the Russian people, and so far they haven't been very enthusiastic about it ;)
Let's face it! Russia will never be a monarchy again. At least not until Turkey, Austria and Germany have restored their monarchs back on their thrones. Not very likely! Is it? :'( ;D


I feel like I have to defend a statement I made weeks ago.

It is up to the people if they want a monarchy. But if there was a Romanov heir that had no interest in ruling. Well, then what? No monarchy, regardless of how the Russian people feel. Don't the Romanovs have a choice?

I know this is obvious to everyone. I just want to make it clear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Jmentanko »