Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 389692 times)

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toscany

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #540 on: April 27, 2010, 08:21:06 AM »
Nicholas Romanovich seems to be the choice of most members of the Romanoff family that I know.  The view about Maria Vladimirovich is that she seems to be overly ambitious and overly self promoting.

All the Imperial laws that supported the former Russian monarchy were extinguished in March, 1917 and replaced by the laws enacted by the Provisional Government before the Soviets implemented their own body of law to cement their unfettered authority.

The laws of the Russian Federation do not provide for a monarchy. Therefore any thoughts that there is some kind of "rightful heir" can only be described as an absolute folly.

Margarita



Right you are, Margarita!

HMB

toscany

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #541 on: April 27, 2010, 09:15:14 AM »
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Many of these people believe none of the surviving Romanov's are "rightful heirs" for various (and many non emotional) reasons.
Do you have any links to pieces that present these arguments? Is GD Maria Vladimirovna less of a Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov than Nicholas II and his forefathers were?
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Dear Richard,

You may GOOGLE many arguments on this subject.  Two web sites that come to mind would be the Romanoff Family Association web page, and the several web sites that were created by Princess Maria Vladimirovna.

Romanoff Family Association

http://romanovfundforrussia.org/family/


Princess Maria Vladimirovna

http://www.imperialhouse.ru/eng/index.html

http://riuo.org/

The RIUO implies that there is a movement in Russia to have a monarchy that shares the country's history, however, it does not state who or what family.

One might think that the most popular person in Russia may become "Czar" of Russia someday, however it appears that it will only be for the people of Russia to decide.  There are many "monarchist" people all over the world that would like to see this happen, however, they are not Russian!

The second question that you ask, is of course, asking one to take sides in restoring a monarchy that was removed.  Lisa Davidson described this quite well, when she said,
 "However, as a family, the Romanovs have tended to be rather paternalistic, and that, combined with the generations long feud between the Nicholievichi and the Vladamirovichi gave rise to the current situation which pits the Grand Duchess and the RFA against one another". ( Posted on: March 15, 2010, 10:11:41 PMPosted by: richard_1990).

I personally do not support Princess Maria Vladimirovna, nor her son Georgiy Mikhailovich, Prinz of Preussen. Some basis of reason are:

*Princess Maria Vladimirovna, is not a Romanov.
*Princess Maria's parents were not supported by Czar Nicholas II in their marriage
*Princess Maria's marriage to, Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia, ended in divorce, because she could not deal with his gay life style.

The President of The RFA, at the time of Georgiy's birth,  stated this,

"The Romanov Family Association hereby declares that the joyful event in the Prussian Royal House does not concern the Romanov Family Association since the newborn prince is not a member of either the Russian Imperial House or of the Romanov family".  ( I do have a copy of the original letter sent to Princess Maria, signed by the RAF in complete agreement with their concern).

The fact is, there are Romanov's alive and well!  And, yes, some are products of morganatic marriages.  However, some are not!

HMB



Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #542 on: May 01, 2010, 11:37:57 AM »
Nicholas Romanovich seems to be the choice of most members of the Romanoff family that I know.  The view about Maria Vladimirovich is that she seems to be overly ambitious and overly self promoting.

All the Imperial laws that supported the former Russian monarchy were extinguished in March, 1917 and replaced by the laws enacted by the Provisional Government before the Soviets implemented their own body of law to cement their unfettered authority.

The laws of the Russian Federation do not provide for a monarchy. Therefore any thoughts that there is some kind of "rightful heir" can only be described as an absolute folly.

Margarita


Dear Margarita. What ever the laws say, the people surely say differently. Ultimately, a Tsar will be selected! Isn't it funny, though, how Mr Putin then and now the present leader are not too quick to eliminate all the Romanov Monarchy symbolism. The rich pageantry of Russian Royalty, and its history, with its double headed Eagle proudly displayed on uniforms during the Olympics. It also graces our military uniforms and navy ships and airplanes. It has given and continues to give Russians a foundation to be proud of which no other country can match in the same way.
Even if Mr. Putin, the British and the Americans are still trying to bury the Romanovs away I'm sure that if their descendants cannot be found someone will, and soon, to fill their shoes if such a thing can at all be possible. And if you were wondering, Russia and American Democracy can never be, its just that simple! JonC. 

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #543 on: May 02, 2010, 02:18:03 AM »
Quote from: Toscany
The fact is, there are Romanov's alive and well!  And, yes, some are products of morganatic marriages.  However, some are not!
Thanks for the reply. But I'm not I understand. You don't seem to be disagreeing with what I said.. If you accept that there exists a non-morganatic Romanov then it has to be GD Maria V. No?

Quote from: JonC
how Mr Putin then and now the present leader are not too quick to eliminate all the Romanov Monarchy symbolism. The rich pageantry of Russian Royalty, and its history, with its double headed Eagle proudly displayed on uniforms during the Olympics.
Yeltsin and Putin have been restoring pre-revolutionary symbolism if anything. Look at all the palaces restored.. all the emblems of the Russian army. Putin's even had the Presidential Regiments uniform changed to the pre-revolutionary incarnation.. Look at the official state seal also.. I don't see any attempt by the current government to distance themselves from the Romanov's, in fact they seem to be embracing it.
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Even if Mr. Putin, the British and the Americans are still trying to bury the Romanovs away I'm sure that if their descendants cannot be found someone will, and soon, to fill their shoes if such a thing can at all be possible. And if you were wondering, Russia and American Democracy can never be, its just that simple! Jon
I don't understand. What do you mean?

Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #544 on: May 04, 2010, 09:14:47 PM »
Dear Richard.

Its very simple. Russians, that is, the ordinary traditional Russian brought up under totalitarianism, much of which is still in the memory of most Russians who were under Communism, and all those who have been influenced by the rich Monarchical imagery and symbolism that is pervasive throughout the various Russian peoples are, because of this background, very protective and engrossed by this influence.

Most Russians are therefor deathly afraid of American Democracy, Nato, and their combined military power. The so-called Western, American influence is viewed by them as the Devil's work.They don't want ' Freedom ' as we here in America know it. Their idea of freedom is based within the protective arm of a government which looks after them and guides them in the direction they must go, with no questions asked.

American Democracy, to them, brings with it the destruction of authority of both within the family and in the larger scope, society. Rampant crime and no sense of communal responsibility because ' God ' is left out of the picture. The US Government and its leaders are prohibited to support the worship of Our Lord. The everyday Russian believes that if God does not consolidate the people, and their leaders, under the ruler ship of Himself, through the Tsar, well then their world will eventually collapse. Democracy, to them, is worse than death. JonC.

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #545 on: May 06, 2010, 05:03:12 AM »
Monarchy works so well because it is above politics, in a Crown like England's, and ties the people together apart from party politics and also denies supreme power to one person. I once heard it described as monarchy is not the power it allows itself it is the power it denies to others. If the Crown were restored in Russia it would allow people to rally around the symbol of the country without involving the Duma and allow a check on what parliament was doing in extreame circumstances.   
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #546 on: May 06, 2010, 08:17:15 PM »
Monarchy works so well because it is above politics, in a Crown like England's, and ties the people together apart from party politics and also denies supreme power to one person. I once heard it described as monarchy is not the power it allows itself it is the power it denies to others. If the Crown were restored in Russia it would allow people to rally around the symbol of the country without involving the Duma and allow a check on what parliament was doing in extreame circumstances.   

But this is a relatively contemporary view on monarchy. Monarchy is like your favorite pair of stretch pants - you can make it fit anything - but the results are not always pleasant to the eye or the spirit. The thing is, there is no basis in Russian culture for such a detached style of monarchy. that's not to say that one could not develop, but I don't see it developing now.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #547 on: May 06, 2010, 08:32:59 PM »
I know that Grand Duchess Maria/Princess Maria(I dont want any arguements has been in the US lately, visiting San Francisco.
 
By the way, its a good thing i'm not a stock market trader, what with my fat fingers!!


http://www.stjohnsacademysf.org/news-and-events/hihthegrandduchessmariavisitsstjohns

http://picasaweb.google.com/stjohnacademy/HIHTheGrandDuchessMariaVisitsStJohnSAcademy


From a Russian Monarchists blog!

"Head of the Russian Imperial House Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna visits the United States of America.
On 23 April 2010 Grand Duchess came to San Francisco (California) invited by archibishop Kirill of San Francisco and Western America. In the airport Her Imperial Highness was met by the archibishop and the delegation of the Russian Imperial Union-Order headed by the Member of the Supreme Council of the RIU-O Sir Georgiy Kumansky."
It is the third visit of the Head of the Russian Dynasty to the United States. In 1979 and 1988 Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich visited the USA, first time on occasion of the 50th anniversary of the RIU-O, and secondly to participate in celebrations in honour of 1000 years of the Baptism of Russia.
From 24 April to 1 May Grand Duchess visited the Russian Centre, Russian cemetery, Orthodox churches and organisations of Russian people placed in San Francisco. Obviously Her Imperial Highness visited Fort Ross, a former Russian colony in California.
On 29 April on occasion of the Highest Visit the Russian Imperial Union-Order organised reception in honour of the Head of the Dynasty.
On 1 May Grand Duchess left San Francisco and moved to Los Angeles.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 08:43:55 PM by Ilias_of_John »
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #548 on: May 07, 2010, 10:33:18 PM »
I hope things change, seriously!  I guess if the whole world is bombarded constantly with the above references Maria and her family refer to themselves by sooner or later everyone, sadly, believes them. Where is the honesty, integrity and sovereign right for her and her family to not only claim but now own the throne of the Russian Monarchy by simply putting a crown on her own head by her own hand. I cannot believe the Church or anyone could fall for this. Is this the will of the people? JonC.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #549 on: May 07, 2010, 11:39:33 PM »
I hope things change, seriously!  I guess if the whole world is bombarded constantly with the above references Maria and her family refer to themselves by sooner or later everyone, sadly, believes them. Where is the honesty, integrity and sovereign right for her and her family to not only claim but now own the throne of the Russian Monarchy by simply putting a crown on her own head by her own hand. I cannot believe the Church or anyone could fall for this. Is this the will of the people? JonC.

The Russian Church both Abroad and in Russia, recognises her as the Heir.
She has dined with Presidents and Prime Ministers(Medvedev and Putin.)
She has attended many family events, like Crown Prince Frederik's wedding to the then Mary Donaldson.

I dont really think anyone is falling for it or not.
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #550 on: May 09, 2010, 10:12:41 AM »
Intereant legibus suis.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #551 on: May 10, 2010, 02:15:00 AM »
 ???
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #552 on: May 12, 2010, 11:20:15 PM »
I hope things change, seriously!  I guess if the whole world is bombarded constantly with the above references Maria and her family refer to themselves by sooner or later everyone, sadly, believes them. Where is the honesty, integrity and sovereign right for her and her family to not only claim but now own the throne of the Russian Monarchy by simply putting a crown on her own head by her own hand. I cannot believe the Church or anyone could fall for this. Is this the will of the people? JonC.

The Russian Church both Abroad and in Russia, recognises her as the Heir.
She has dined with Presidents and Prime Ministers(Medvedev and Putin.)
She has attended many family events, like Crown Prince Frederik's wedding to the then Mary Donaldson.
I dont really think anyone is falling for it or not.



You are certainly far reaching!! If the Orthodox Church did recognize her then why are there so many objections to her actually assuming the Throne? No-one, whether in Government or within the Church, when it is all said and done, will actually choose her because of the baggage her family brings. JonC.

Offline Student of History

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #553 on: May 13, 2010, 06:01:50 AM »
All branches of the Romanov family have heirs. The real question is, to what.

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #554 on: May 13, 2010, 07:01:01 AM »
Of course we never hear from her son and his views. His s 3rd in line to the German throne as well and 111th (i think) to the british one as well! What are his views on the question and does he actually want it? Would he heal the rift between the family or continue? So many questions.
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