Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 314426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline richard_1990

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #480 on: October 19, 2009, 10:46:58 PM »
Quote from: Lisa Davidson
I agree that HSH Prince Dmitri Ilyinsky would be a good choice, as he is the heir by primogeniture and has produced children, albeit daughters. I'm not sure that Tim Ilyinsky is interested in this royalty business, but he would be a good choice.
Even though this is all hypothetical, the idea of the Russian people accepting an American-Russian claimant is really beyond this world. It would never happen.

Offline Vecchiolarry

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #481 on: October 19, 2009, 11:09:15 PM »
Hi,

There's a small mixup in the names and relations of Vsevolod's sister -
Her name was Catherine Ivanovna and she lived in Montevedeo, Uruguay and died last year, I think....

Vera Constantinovna was Vsevolod's aunt and lived in New York City and died in 2001.

Larry

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4437
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #482 on: October 19, 2009, 11:44:30 PM »
Quote from: Lisa Davidson
I agree that HSH Prince Dmitri Ilyinsky would be a good choice, as he is the heir by primogeniture and has produced children, albeit daughters. I'm not sure that Tim Ilyinsky is interested in this royalty business, but he would be a good choice.
Even though this is all hypothetical, the idea of the Russian people accepting an American-Russian claimant is really beyond this world. It would never happen.

Agreed!

Russian citizens by and large have absolutely no interest in foreign citizens who might or have expressed interest about their internal political affairs relating to the restitution of the monarchy.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 11:47:11 PM by Belochka »


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #483 on: October 20, 2009, 02:05:43 AM »
Every time I see these assemblage of names, I walk into my study and gaze on a remarkable  "document" that hangs suitably framed and away from direct sunlight.  The story is this:  When the body of the Empress Marie Feodorovna was brought back for burial in the vaults of the Imperial Church of Sts Peter and Paul, a learned gentleman (who speaks/reads and lives in Russia for a portion of each year-----indeed was instrumental in translating the Emperess Marie's diaries Danish/Russian) with whom I have had serveral contacts by telephone and mail was invited and was in attendance at the burial ceremonies in Saint Petersburg, 2006 (and NO, while he said that he heard the noise and subsequent commotion of the "Danish" diplomat, slipping and falling into the prepared waiting/open grave of Maria Feorodorvna, he did not actually wittness it due to the crowd in the church, but there exist good  photos of this mishap).  After the service, there was a luncheon held at a nearby church hall, where most of the prominent guests attended, including my acquaintance.  A several page memorial booklet containing a "Hymn" created in 1890, by a Milli Balak ( but not published at that time) had now been finally published and was presented to the VIP guests at the afternoon luncheon, following the ceremonies. Dedicated to the late Enpress and bearing her likeness on the from cover and was printed in both Russian and Danish with the date 2006. ( A separate menu of the luncheon was also placed at each dining position.) My acquaintance gathered at least two of the "Hymn" booklets and proceeded to politely and ethically move among the more prominent guests with highly pertitent Russian historical connections in this situation.  He asked if they would autograph, (as a momento of the occasion) a couple of copies each on the inside title page?  And WHAT an assemblage of names did he gather! Somewhat later he put up for sale ONE copy of the Hymn and one copy of the luncheon memu (unsigned).  Learning of his willingness to sell one copy of each, I immediately entered into a contest with several others desirious of such an historical assemblage of names.  My top competitor turned out to be a "Texas University of Russian History professor," but I was able to become the purchaser of BOTH the items.  I have absolutely NO DOUBT that these are authentic signed-on the-spot by the people so named.  The signatories on the inside front right page are as follows: ""Prince Nicholas Romanoff (simply signed "Nicholas"; Prince Dimitri Romanoff, (signed "Dimitri Romanoff"; "Princess Olga Romanova"( signed "Olga Romanova"); "George Yurievsky" (great-grandson of the Emperor Alexander II); "Princess Angelica Ilyinsky;" "Dimitri R. Ilyinsky;" and " Anna Ilyinsky;" ( daughter-in-law and grandchildren of the Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich); and Princess Xenia Yusupova Sifiri ( daughter of Prince Felix Yusupov and the Grand Duchess Irina Alexandrovna).  This was an unrepeated chance for me to have all these interrelated and intertwined representatives of this era assembled on one page and I happily paid the price!  The question arises:  Where was the Grand Duchess Maria V. ?  I understand that she left early, thus no representative signature of herself.  The acquisition of signatures settled on the Russian individuals, not on such other relations as the Michael Kents, who were there.   The booklet is twelve pages, in Russian and Danish, 6" x 8.5."  I apologize in advance in spelling/s as it was the first time I have had it down from the wall since framing in early 2007!  I have seen nothing like it before, or since.    AP.














« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 02:19:22 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline richard_1990

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #484 on: October 20, 2009, 03:58:40 AM »
Quote
The question arises:  Where was the Grand Duchess Maria V.
I can't even see anyone else besides her in the reburial photos.




Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4437
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #485 on: October 20, 2009, 04:51:25 AM »
.... A several page memorial booklet containing a "Hymn" created in 1890, by a Milli Balak ( but not published at that time) had now been finally published and was presented to the VIP guests at the afternoon luncheon, following the ceremonies. Dedicated to the late Enpress and bearing her likeness on the from cover and was printed in both Russian and Danish with the date 2006. ( A separate menu of the luncheon was also placed at each dining position.) My acquaintance gathered at least two of the "Hymn" booklets and proceeded to politely and ethically move among the more prominent guests with highly pertitent Russian historical connections in this situation.  He asked if they would autograph, (as a momento of the occasion) a couple of copies each on the inside title page?  And WHAT an assemblage of names did he gather! Somewhat later he put up for sale ONE copy of the Hymn and one copy of the luncheon memu (unsigned).  Learning of his willingness to sell one copy of each, I immediately entered into a contest with several others desirious of such an historical assemblage of names.  My top competitor turned out to be a "Texas University of Russian History professor," but I was able to become the purchaser of BOTH the items.  I have absolutely NO DOUBT that these are authentic signed-on the-spot by the people so named.  The signatories on the inside front right page are as follows: ""Prince Nicholas Romanoff (simply signed "Nicholas"; Prince Dimitri Romanoff, (signed "Dimitri Romanoff"; "Princess Olga Romanova"( signed "Olga Romanova"); "George Yurievsky" (great-grandson of the Emperor Alexander II); "Princess Angelica Ilyinsky;" "Dimitri R. Ilyinsky;" and " Anna Ilyinsky;" ( daughter-in-law and grandchildren of the Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich); and Princess Xenia Yusupova Sifiri ( daughter of Prince Felix Yusupov and the Grand Duchess Irina Alexandrovna).  ... I have seen nothing like it before, or since.    AP.

Congratulations on your good fortune Aleksandr Pavlovich!

Certainly something to treasure.

Margarita














Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #486 on: October 20, 2009, 09:20:04 AM »
Many thanks, "Belochka."  It is good to hear from you again!   Kind regards,  AP

Offline Ilias_of_John

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #487 on: October 21, 2009, 03:50:01 AM »
Interested in selling?
 :)



No,  I didnt think so.........
 ;D
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4437
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #488 on: October 21, 2009, 08:19:20 PM »
Many thanks, "Belochka."  It is good to hear from you again!   Kind regards,  AP

Many thanks for your warm welcome. I am delighted to be here again.

BTW, I checked my Russian language copy of M. F.'s diary.  In the Vagrius edition I read that O. N. Dudochkina-Krog and A. N. Chekanskii (CR, 2005) are credited as the translators.

Could it be more likely that the person you mentioned was actually translating Nikolai II's diaries?

Margarita


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #489 on: October 21, 2009, 10:02:34 PM »
Thank you for your kind reply, Margarita!  I feel certain that my conversation with the gentleman, indicated that he helped with the translation of the Empress Marie F.'s diaries.  I do not know ithe date, but it could be some years back and I believe that now he is /or is near, his retirement years..  Since it was a business transaction, I am not certain that I can give his name without his permission (he may be a member here), but I will pm you a message. As always, many thanks for your comment/s.  With best regards,  AP

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #490 on: October 21, 2009, 10:11:38 PM »
Ah, "Ilias_of_ John", you are perceptive!  You are correct, as I intend to keep it for a goodly bit.  Where else, can one readily find an itermingling by signature of such representatives  of notable families of the era, both then and now?  With kind regards,  AP
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:14:48 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Ilias_of_John

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #491 on: November 05, 2009, 02:32:58 AM »
It is with such documents that history is made.

 ;)

And that diplomat, who was NOT Danish, had the loudest screams you ever heard!
Acoording to some friends.
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

  • Guest
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #492 on: March 03, 2010, 04:31:37 PM »
If the Vladimirovichi were excluded because:
1. Grand Duke Vladimir Kyrillovich's marriage is deemed unequal
2. Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna was Lutheran at the time of her children's birth (see new evidence provided by the FA in this thread) - thus also excluding her female-line Leiningen and Hohenzollern descendants.
... who would then be the current pretender/claimant/heir/head of the house, according to the traditional interpretation of the Pauline Law?
Is it the Greek Royal Family, descended from Grand Duchess Olga Konstantinovna? If so, since Crown Prince Pavlos has married unequally, according to the Pauline Laws, who would be next in line after him?

Offline kmerov

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #493 on: March 03, 2010, 04:52:08 PM »
The Greek RF sounds right. And if so, the next in line would be Pavlos brother, Prince Nikolaos.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 04:53:48 PM by kmerov »

Offline Ilias_of_John

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #494 on: March 03, 2010, 04:54:39 PM »
and he is about to marry below his rank, which then leaves young Phillipos,
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17