Author Topic: Who is the rightful heir?  (Read 387739 times)

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Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #570 on: May 18, 2010, 06:11:41 PM »
All moot points unfortunately.
However.......
I have always said that those closest to the throne were those that were direct relatives,ie one of Nicholas II sisters kids.
Which leaves us with Xenia's sons and Grand Children.

So....
Now that Prince Michael Andreevich is dead, does that leave his brother Prince Andrew Andreevich, even though he is on his third marriage, and has married outside the faith?
Or, do we go to Xenia and her children in Athens?
Or the Illynsky's in Florida and Conneticut?
Or, the Canadian Romanov's?
Also, dont forget that the ROC and what used to be ROCA, recognise GD Maria and GD George, and both Mendevev and Putin treat her as the most senior claimant.
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Offline kmerov

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #571 on: May 18, 2010, 06:45:35 PM »
According to Spiridovitch, the report was requested by Nicholas II soon after her conversion. Tchetcheglovitov, the Minister of Justice, sent the report to Nicholas II as well as Maria Pavlovna.  There may well be a copy tucked away in GARF somewhere. It was clear according to him that the law required dynasts to be born to an Orthodox mother. As Maria Pavlovna was NOT Orthodox, her children could not inherit the throne.  Further, when Alexander II gave permission for Vladimir to marry a non Orthodox, his ukaze very interestingly said only that Vladimir did not lose his succession right, but there was no mention of his children's rights. Don't confuse the rights and privileges that came with being the grandsons of an Emperor with being able to succeed to the Throne.  According to Spiridovitch, Nicholas II himself was convinced that Vladimir's sons could not succeed to the Throne.
 

You only had (imperial) rights and privileges as grandsons of the Emperor when your parents and their marriage were in accordance with the Pauline Laws. There were lots of grandchildren of Emperors who didn't enyoy imperial rights.

You can't just take Spiridovitch's word as the thruth on the matter or Tchetcheglovitovs. Historical sources say otherwise. For instance, Nicholas II made Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna renounce her rights when she married, which he wouldn't have done if she didn't have them. And she of course was the daughter of a Lutheran mother. 

Offline kmerov

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #572 on: May 18, 2010, 06:51:07 PM »
All moot points unfortunately.
However.......
I have always said that those closest to the throne were those that were direct relatives,ie one of Nicholas II sisters kids.
Which leaves us with Xenia's sons and Grand Children.

So....
Now that Prince Michael Andreevich is dead, does that leave his brother Prince Andrew Andreevich, even though he is on his third marriage, and has married outside the faith?
Or, do we go to Xenia and her children in Athens?
Or the Illynsky's in Florida and Conneticut?
Or, the Canadian Romanov's?
Also, dont forget that the ROC and what used to be ROCA, recognise GD Maria and GD George, and both Mendevev and Putin treat her as the most senior claimant.

Nicholas II doesn't have any direct relatives.
GDss Xenia's descendants are not dynasts, but if that is of no matter, then you can pick anyone you like.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #573 on: May 18, 2010, 07:00:21 PM »
Well, the Pauline laws are no longer relative.
Who do you think Putin will, if he ever does pick?
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Offline Student of History

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #574 on: May 18, 2010, 07:02:59 PM »
Do you think Putin will pick someone Ilias_of_John?

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #575 on: May 18, 2010, 07:10:34 PM »
Of course if it's a Romanov restoration, it will probably be GD Maria or GD George, simply because they have made themselves known.

Offline kmerov

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #576 on: May 18, 2010, 07:12:34 PM »
Well, the Pauline laws are no longer relative.
Who do you think Putin will, if he ever does pick?


No, and if it was up to me I would pick someone from GDss Xenia's line aswell.
If Putin ever picked someone, I think that it would be GDss Maria Vladimirovna.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #577 on: May 19, 2010, 01:17:29 AM »
Well, the Pauline laws are no longer relative.
Who do you think Putin will, if he ever does pick?


No, and if it was up to me I would pick someone from GDss Xenia's line aswell.
If Putin ever picked someone, I think that it would be GDss Maria Vladimirovna.

The best bet from Xenia's line is Rostislav Rostislavovich who is known as Misha.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #578 on: May 19, 2010, 05:30:48 AM »

From Kmerov,
Well, the Pauline laws are no longer relative.
Who do you think Putin will, if he ever does pick?



No idea, I don't move in those circles.

From Lisa,
The best bet from Xenia's line is Rostislav Rostislavovich who is known as Misha"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Rostislav_Romanov_(b._1985).


I have heard about this young man,and he does belong to the RFA, so.......anythng is possible!







« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 05:33:30 AM by Ilias_of_John »
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Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #579 on: June 23, 2010, 11:32:27 PM »
Under all these possibilities then it is clear that Putin might just pick himself! Why not? He's going to pick someone and soon because with the Alexander Palace now been opened to the public its clear someone has to live in it, right? I mean with all these efforts made by the government to restore Romanov imagery and history it just seems logical that the Monarchy will be restored, and soon. Why then couldn't he pick himself? JonC.

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #580 on: June 23, 2010, 11:49:57 PM »
Quote
Under all these possibilities then it is clear that Putin might just pick himself! Why not? He's going to pick someone and soon because with the Alexander Palace now been opened to the public its clear someone has to live in it, right? I mean with all these efforts made by the government to restore Romanov imagery and history it just seems logical that the Monarchy will be restored, and soon. Why then couldn't he pick himself? JonC.
There's no reason he can't pick himself. But I wouldn't draw conclusions from the restoration of palaces... I mean, AP is being restored as a museum with a gift shop if I'm not mistaken - why would Putin want a gift shop in his palace?

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #581 on: June 24, 2010, 12:03:28 AM »
Or even live, Goverment is in Moscow.
I think you are making a statement just to post something.
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Offline JonC

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #582 on: June 24, 2010, 10:23:52 PM »
Or even live, Goverment is in Moscow.
I think you are making a statement just to post something.

I was actually being facetious. Of course the Alexander Palace could, at this stage, only be a tourist attraction, BUT, my point, for the more astute, was that because of all this effort to restore Monarchical imagery and history must be for the possible restoration of the Russian Monarchy. My playful mention of Putin announcing himself as the new Tsar, although possible, was to show how ridiculous the notion that a Romanov would be selected since the belief by almost all - me NOT being one of them - that there are no direct descendants of the Anointed line of Nicholas 2nd himself which makes the Pauline laws null and void. Of course , again, I'm NOT one who holds such a conviction. JonC. 

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #583 on: June 25, 2010, 01:14:11 AM »
" that there are no direct descendants of the Anointed line of Nicholas 2nd himself which makes the Pauline laws null and void. Of course , again, I'm NOT one who holds such a conviction. JonC.  "

Share your thoughts with us JonC.
Which child survived to give us direct descendants?
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline richard_1990

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Re: Who is the rightful heir?
« Reply #584 on: June 25, 2010, 02:30:03 AM »
Quote
" that there are no direct descendants of the Anointed line of Nicholas 2nd himself which makes the Pauline laws null and void. Of course , again, I'm NOT one who holds such a conviction. JonC.  "
The fact that there's no direct descendant means nothing and certainly does not make the Pauline laws null and void. There's no such thing as an "anointed line". I mean look at the succession following the establishment of the Pauline laws, it was erratic. Alexander I (son of Paul I) > Grand Duke Constantine (son of Paul I) > Nicholas I (son of Paul I) > Alexander II (son of Nicholas I) etc. I mean, there's no reason you can't have the descendants of the Vladimirovitchi assume the throne, or if you don't want them, have the Nikolaievichi. When you look at how disjointed the history of succession under the Romanov's it, there seems plenty of precedents to put any of the modern Romanov's on the throne. And if you're really serious about "anointed lines", then the customary coronation ceremony would re-establish it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 02:32:08 AM by richard_1990 »