Author Topic: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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I tried to start this topic under that of claimants, but no one posted. What I was asking was, what do you think are the main reasons people wanted to be impostors if they were rational, or if they were deluded into it by their own thinking, what might have led them to that ( besides mental issues). Was it inheritance, desire for fame and fortune, or was it being in some cases deranged, or susceptible to illusion, was it a desire for escapism from their own realities and identities in desiring to be someone else or if not that what? Just give your theory or theories. I really want to hear views on this. :)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 10:03:27 AM by Alixz »

Offline Annie

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2006, 01:23:37 PM »
All of the above, money, fame, and in many cases the mental instability (like AA/FS)

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2006, 08:37:13 AM »
Maybe we should go through a list of the more well known claimants, and have the causes of their claim, or what we think were those, in a list?

Offline Ivan Komarov

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2006, 11:58:48 PM »
I have a blanket suggestion here; doesn't exactly answer the question, but I must say that assuming there had been survivors, what's the likelihood that they'd say, twenty years later (for example) "here I am"?  After all, if you'd just escaped death at the hands of the Communists, who even today have party members throughout the world, would you be willing to broadcast where you were?  I think a lot of it, though, was publicity, and money - although the Romanov coffers were hardly full at any point, especially by the late 1910's.  This is an interesting question, though...I hope some more people answer to it.

:)
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2006, 08:49:59 AM »
Well, if there were survivors, I very much think they would have let the world, and their relatives know of their existence, if they were in a position where they could do so. Most would probably have been in that position. They would have wanted recognition, and perhaps inheiritence or succession rights, and also to see their relatives. Not all their relatives might have been welcoming, and they might have had to go through some travail to prove their claim, but I think it would have been worthwhile to a real survivor, to come forward.Certainly, many did so who were imposters, and they had their fair share of supporters.

Offline Ivan Komarov

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2006, 09:51:48 AM »
You make an excellent point...I suppose I just play the pessimist too much.

 ;)
Just in case the fates are kind and you come back someday
I don't want to live without my little Anastasia
Anastasia, your disappearance is the thorn in my side
Anastasia, you know your absence is the thorn in my side

Offline Lemur

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2006, 10:34:56 AM »
I agree with Ivan, I don't think they'd want to make a public scene the way Anna Anderson did. The Russian royalty and nobility were raised to be reserved, and the IF was very private. It would be against their nature to go LOOK AT ME!!! They would also have to worry about possibly threats to their lives.

I agree with Imperial Angel that if someone survived they would want to seek out their family, but only if they could do this safely. I don't think any real royal would make a big court case and crave the spotlight (and money) they way Anna Anderson did.

What I mean by 'safely' is that if they were still in Russia, they'd have to live anonymously as peasants to keep from being killed by the Bolsheviks, and may never be able to leave the country and reveal themselves. Of course, the Bolsheviks had no interest in rubbing out any of the claimants, since they were all fakes.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2006, 10:43:53 AM »
Well, I agree they may not have sought as much attention as Anna Anderson, but their claim may have generated so much attention that they would have found themselves in a claim larger than they would have imagined. That is, they may just have been overwhelmed by all the attention their claim would surely attract, perhaps to the point that Anna Anderson did, although she surely knew what she was doing as well. If they were in Russia, they would have had to be quiet obviously. But since there was never a real claimant, it is hard to state what a real one would have done, or what would have transpired involving their claim.

Offline Lemur

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2006, 10:46:43 AM »
If one of the Tsar's children had turned up alive I doubt he or she would have had to file any 'claim' or make a spectacle of him/herself, because everyone would have known them and accepted them. The reasons the claimants were not accepted is because they were all fakes.

Offline skirt

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2006, 11:30:18 AM »
At the risk of sounding naive, and to some redundant- I have to ask.. What would one have to gain from claiming to be a survivor? I simply dont understand.  The family was murdered (with the exception of two missing bodies) we know that for sure- so it would be very dangerous for anyone to announce that they had survived- if in fact they had.  From what I gathered on this site, there would be no title to assume, no title that exists.  Money? Is there money or fortune that could in fact be collected? If there IS money to be collected then why did so many Romanov family members die in relative poverty- could they have collected it? (a different thread I'm sure.. sorry )
It appears to me that anyone 'claiming' to be a survivor would have to be absolutely personally convinced that they were in fact that person.  If this forum is any suggestion or indication as to how that person would be treated, they would have to in fact be verifyably INSANE!! 

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Reasons that Claimants had for Claiming They Survived the Murder
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2006, 11:49:53 AM »
If anyone had survived, they would at least have had to make their family aware of their existence, which I am sure they would have wanted to do anyway, as this was the first acceptance, and the first connection to their old world whatever the life they had lived since. They would most likely have done that in a quiet and tasteful way, I agree, although inevitably when the news got out, hoopla would surely have surrounded them at least for a while, whatever they or their family wanted. They would have been a story, although it would have been much less if their claim was already proved, having been accepted by their family, etc.But would all the family have accepted a claimant, even one very authentic? Doubt always exists in some people's minds...

As for what they would have gained or what any imposter theorotically stood to gain, there was actually much. Succession rights, whether of much actual import, would have been at least a possibility. Obviously, the family was divided about who was the true heir, and might have been so in the face of a real claimant, but they could have put themselves out there. And, then again, there was the issue of whether there was much of a throne to claim. There was really only the title, the prestige, the tradition, as the Romanov dynasty wasn't going to be restored anytime soon. As for money, that was a very thorny issue, if there was any,etc. I don't think there was, but read William Clark's book  on the subject for further info.Anyone claiming to be a survivor actually stood to gain, at least in the realm of theory. Some just wanted attention, which was surely to be gained. Others did believe they were that person, such as Anna Andersin for one. They had different motives. A true claimant would most likely just have been happy to have their true identity and family back, I think.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2006, 11:51:39 AM by imperial angel »