Author Topic: Alix's Engagement and Wedding  (Read 140397 times)

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Offline mcdnab

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #300 on: October 21, 2009, 10:10:48 AM »

I suspect a mixture of personal preference, the suggestions by the existing reigning monarch, name days and saints days.

19th Century reigining Empress Consorts:

Alix of Hesse and By Rhine - The Empress Alexandra Feodorovna - father (Grand Duke Louis of Hesse )

Marie of Denmark - The Empress Marie Feodorovna (father King Christina of Denmark)

Marie of Hesse - The Empress Marie Alexandrovna (father Grand Duke Ludwig of Hesse).

Charlotte of Prussia - The Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (her father Frederick William of Prussia) - Might have chosen Alexandra in honour of her brother in law the Emperor Alexander I.

Louise of Baden - The Empress Elizabeth Alexeievna - (father was Charles Louis of Baden)

Sophie Marie Dorothea Auguste Louise of Württemberg. The Empress Marie Feodorovna - (father Friedrich Duke of Wurttemberg).

Princess Wilhelmina Louisa of Hesse-Darmstadt - Grand Duchess Natalia Alexeievna - first wife of Paul I (father Ludwig of Hesse Darmstadt)

 


Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #301 on: October 21, 2009, 03:31:06 PM »
Yes, I was reffering to tsarinas as Marie Alexandrovna, your explanation must be true

Offline Magdalena

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #302 on: October 21, 2009, 03:43:30 PM »
I've read somewhere that St. Fyodor was the patron of all foreign princesses that were coming to Russia marry the Romanov men, so I think partly that's why Alix's and Ella's patronyms... but well, it doesn't explain the other patronyms, like Alexandrovna or Alexeievna...

Offline Father Gregory

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #303 on: October 21, 2009, 06:11:11 PM »
I don't know if this question belongs here but, are people from Hesse called Hessians?  And were these the same people who helped in the American Revolutionary War?

Offline Belochka

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #304 on: October 21, 2009, 08:05:50 PM »
I don't know if this question belongs here but, are people from Hesse called Hessians? 

I believe that is the case.


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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #305 on: August 30, 2010, 03:31:36 PM »
A painting representing her wedding

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #306 on: November 21, 2010, 04:03:52 PM »
I did not understand everything you wrote but I did understand that you meant that if Alix' father would have lived longer she would not have married Nicky. I am not an expert, to tell the truth - I know very little of Grand Duke Ludwig's opinions, but he allowed Ella to marry Sergei so maybe he would have allowed Alix to marry Nicky. But of course, the situations were different. Ella "just" married a Grand Duke and was not "forced" to change religion and could have remained a Lutheran if she wished to while Alix who married the heir to the throne had to change her religion.

If Ludwig did object to their marriage I don't think Alix would have gone through with it - but I don't think she would have married someone else. I think she would have remained unmarried and been her father's constant companion.



The focus in that case is indeed the conversion. Nobody really expected that Ella would convert to orthodoxy - when she did it caused a major scandal and upset part of her family at least her father and sister Irene.
But all of them were very much against a marriage of Alix and Nicholas - not only due to religious aspects but due to the political situation in Russia which - as Princess Victoria wrote - Ella did not know at all living in a kind a fairytale and unreal world of her own.
They knew Alix's shy and calm character and that she should not take the high risk of marrying the heir. They had several other grooms in mind and discussed pro and contra - money was important as was a place near to Darmstadt.
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Offline historyfan

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #307 on: November 21, 2010, 09:57:49 PM »
I did not understand everything you wrote but I did understand that you meant that if Alix' father would have lived longer she would not have married Nicky. I am not an expert, to tell the truth - I know very little of Grand Duke Ludwig's opinions, but he allowed Ella to marry Sergei so maybe he would have allowed Alix to marry Nicky. But of course, the situations were different. Ella "just" married a Grand Duke and was not "forced" to change religion and could have remained a Lutheran if she wished to while Alix who married the heir to the throne had to change her religion.

If Ludwig did object to their marriage I don't think Alix would have gone through with it - but I don't think she would have married someone else. I think she would have remained unmarried and been her father's constant companion.




The focus in that case is indeed the conversion. Nobody really expected that Ella would convert to orthodoxy - when she did it caused a major scandal and upset part of her family at least her father and sister Irene.
But all of them were very much against a marriage of Alix and Nicholas - not only due to religious aspects but due to the political situation in Russia which - as Princess Victoria wrote - Ella did not know at all living in a kind a fairytale and unreal world of her own.
They knew Alix's shy and calm character and that she should not take the high risk of marrying the heir. They had several other grooms in mind and discussed pro and contra - money was important as was a place near to Darmstadt.

Queen Victoria had very similar thoughts, about the political situation in Russia.  She referred to Alix and Nicholas ascending "that thorny throne".

Offline Helen

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #308 on: November 22, 2010, 02:06:31 AM »
They had several other grooms in mind and discussed pro and contra - money was important as was a place near to Darmstadt.
Why was it thought necessary for her to marry someone from the Darmstadt area?  There wasn't much that required her presence there. 
An advantage of Alix's marriage to Nicholas was that it helped her to break away from her brother and Darmstadt, which I think was a most healthy development. And Nicholas was certainly the best thing that ever happened to her.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline matushka

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #309 on: November 22, 2010, 06:05:15 AM »

the political situation in Russia which - as Princess Victoria wrote - Ella did not know at all living in a kind a fairytale and unreal world of her own.

Thomas, when was this letter written? I would'nt say Ella knew nothing of the political situation by 1894 and was not any more living in an unreal world. By 1894 Elisaveta Fedorovna was the wife of the Moscow governor (a dangerous fonction), working very active at his side, especially charity work, visiting, comforting, establishing. Serge Alexandrovich discussed with her such problem like students movement, revolution from the upper class, his ideas about autocracy. A few years later we see Ella writing letters to Nicolas II, proposing political advices... Of course, she was not an expert, a polical woman, but she was not living in a fairytale. What she certainly did not expect was the early death of Alexander III and, as a consequence the fact that her sister Alix will not have any time and any mentor to learn her "job".

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #310 on: November 22, 2010, 08:52:09 AM »
They had several other grooms in mind and discussed pro and contra - money was important as was a place near to Darmstadt.
Why was it thought necessary for her to marry someone from the Darmstadt area?  There wasn't much that required her presence there. 
An advantage of Alix's marriage to Nicholas was that it helped her to break away from her brother and Darmstadt, which I think was a most healthy development. And Nicholas was certainly the best thing that ever happened to her.

I am not sure that Nicholas was the best thing to ever happen to Alix or that she was ever the best thing to ever happen to him.  Alix would have been much better off marrying Prince Albert Victor or another perhaps lesser prince.  IMHO.  She would have been under much less stress and perhaps would have had the longed for first born son much earlier.  As for being a carrier of hemophilia, she would have passed that on no matter who she married, but had she married Albert Victor she would not have been exposed to Rasputin and changing from Lutheran to Anglican would not have been as mysterious or so confusing.

Nicholas and Alix may have had a fairy tale romance, but so did Prince Charles and Diana, Princess of Wales.  Everyone knows how both of these relationships ended up.

Offline Helen

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #311 on: November 22, 2010, 10:22:50 AM »
Neither the fuss about her mysticism nor the hysteria about Rasputin were brought into her life by Nicholas, so why lay it at his door? I do agree with you, however, that another position would probably have been less stressful, and would probably not have required conversion to Orthodoxy. But haemophilia would have been a factor anyway, as you said. 

Alix herself wrote that she cared for Prince Albert Victor as a cousin only, but could not love him as one should love one's husband. A loveless marriage with him would never have worked out well.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #312 on: November 22, 2010, 01:23:51 PM »
They had several other grooms in mind and discussed pro and contra - money was important as was a place near to Darmstadt.
Why was it thought necessary for her to marry someone from the Darmstadt area?  There wasn't much that required her presence there.  
An advantage of Alix's marriage to Nicholas was that it helped her to break away from her brother and Darmstadt, which I think was a most healthy development. And Nicholas was certainly the best thing that ever happened to her.

It seems that Grand Duke Ludwig IV - very much like Queen Victoria before - did not want to lose his youngest daughter too early. He was very much against any marriage before she had reached a certain age. Alix herself was extremely close to her father and actually it seems that other potential grooms were taken in mind for the mere reason to cut her thoughts off the Tsarevich. This explains his wish for a groom living nearby like the Badens
We know by now that she refused either the British crown as well as princes of Romania and Baden. She loved Nicholas but her father's will was dearer to her and I really think that she would not have married him had he still been alive in 94.
Princess Victoria wrote in 91 that the Queen suggested to put strong pressure upon Alix if she continued any hopes for a Russian marriage (Victoria did not support these "suggestions" - by the way).
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 01:26:21 PM by Thomas_Hesse »
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Offline Helen

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #313 on: November 22, 2010, 02:12:12 PM »
So there was no mysterious other reason why she should hang around Darmstadt - they just did not want her to go to Russia.

Alix left for Coburg in April 1894, determined not to accept any proposal of marriage. Perhaps she would not have accepted Nicholas' proposal in April 1894, if her father had still been alive, partly because of her father's wishes and partly because there would not have been developments that made her leave. Or perhaps she would have accepted Nicholas' proposal anyway. We'll never know. There might not even have been a Coburg wedding in April 1894, if Ludwig IV had still been alive.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 02:17:53 PM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

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Re: Alix's Engagement and Wedding
« Reply #314 on: November 22, 2010, 02:32:27 PM »
Queen Victoria had a hand in the Ernst/Ducky debacle.  Who knows if Louis would have objected to the match if he had been alive.

Actually didn't Queen Victoria decide that her match making days were over after Ernst and Ducky were so unhappy?

Alix was under pressure from Ella and Serge as well as others including surprisingly Kaiser Wilhelm.  (It never hurts to have a German princess married to the future Tsar of Russia.)

When I said that I wasn't sure that Nicholas was good for Alix, I didn't mean that he introduced the mysticism or Rasputin into her life.  But no matter how happy they were as a couple, they were terrible as absolute monarchs.  The reason that I said that Prince Albert Victor would have been good for Alix is that she would have not had the pressure of beginning her married life on the throne and would have had time to acclimate herself to her position.  Also, she already knew and loved England and had the "lay of the land" so to speak.

Many a royal marriage has been loveless and some, like Tsar Alexander III and Dagmar, learned to love one another.

But I stray into the "what ifs" that don't belong in this thread.