Author Topic: prospective successors of Franco  (Read 17314 times)

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Offline Dmitry Russian

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prospective successors of Franco
« on: December 20, 2006, 05:20:03 AM »
I know, that Spanish dictator Franco has chosen young prince Juan Carlos as the future king of Spain in case of death of the dictator. But it is interesting to me, there were still also other prospective successors of the general? I have a question. Could Luis Alphonso (Louis XX as the French King) to be king of Spain?
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Offline archiduque Karlos

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 09:02:07 AM »
Luis Alfonso cannot be a king of Spain because his(her,your) grandfather, son of Alfonso XIII, renounced his(her,your) rights to be a king being a prince of Asturias another son, don Juan father of Juan Carlos I.

Offline Dmitry Russian

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2006, 05:43:55 PM »
Why its grandfather has been deprived the rights to the Spanish throne? That has occured in the Spanish royal family, that the grandfather of Luis Alphonso has been deprived these rights?
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Offline Bernardino

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2006, 05:58:28 PM »
Hello  :)

After his eldest brother had renounced his rights on July 11th 1933 in order to contract a non-dynastic marriage, Luis Alfonso's grandfather (Infante Don Jaime) renounced his successory rights it seems because his physical incapacity (he was deaf) ten days after  ...the next in the line of succession was Don Juan, Juan Carlos I's father...

But Don Jaime didn't marry until 1935, with the noble-lady Emmanuele de Dampierre, from whose marriage was born Don Alfonso, crowned Duke of Cádiz by Franco (also the grandfather of his wife), and the father of Luis Alfonso, titled Duke of Anjou...

Offline cimbrio

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 06:04:38 AM »
Before Franco chose Prince Juan Carlos (who was known as Juanito within the family and by the Generalisimo as well), there were five other "prospective" heirs to become King of Spain; one was the present King's own father, Juan, Count of Barcelona; Don Juan was the third son of the late King Alfonso XIII, who left Spain in 1931 following the April 14th elections. He died in Rome, in exile, ten years later. Alfonso XIII had had four sons: the eldest, Alfonso Prince of Asturias, forfeited his rights to the crown and for any of his descendants to marry a commoner from Cuba. His second son, Jaime, renounced his rights to marry a memberof the French Dampierre family, but was also regarded as the second candidatre to succeed Franco; his grandson Luis Alfonso was the third candidate, but today has no real claim on the Spanish throne and is regarded by many as the reightful king of France, following the senior male line of the Bourbon family.
The third candidate was Prince Francis Xaver (Francesco Saverio) of Parma, member of the Bourbon branch of the Italian Parmas who was the leader of the Carlist sympathisers, having inherited the claim through an aunt.
The next candidate was his own son, Charles Hugh (Carlo Hugo), who was forced to leave Spain for inciting political turmoil. He was married to a sister of the Queen of the Netherlands; his family is conscious of their political standing, and his youngest was considered a suitable bride to the presetn Crown Prince a few years ago, but there was never a relationship.

Offline Adalid

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 10:11:47 AM »
Alfonso XIII's eldest son, Alfonso, had to renounce his rights to the throne in order to marry a commoner (so called "morganatic marriage").  Felipe, the current Prince of Asturias has also married a commoner, doña Letizia, yet he has not had to renounce his rights and is still the heir apparent to the throne.  Was there a change in Spanish law that permits this?  Could some one please give me some references that explain how this has come about?

Much obliged,

JS   

Offline José

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2007, 10:55:10 AM »
Times change  :(.

We are in the 21st century  ;).

Royals are no longer forced to marry royals or will loose their rights.
Mind you, in the next generation only the Prince of Liechtenstein (married to a avarian princess) would be able to succeed  ;D.

21st century Spain has legalized homossexual marriages.
Do you think it would oppose to an "unequal" marriage between a catholic prince and a non-catholic, divorced journalist   :o?

Offline José

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 11:01:00 AM »
His second son, Jaime, renounced his rights to marry a memberof the French Dampierre family, but was also regarded as the second candidatre to succeed Franco; his grandson Luis Alfonso was the third candidate, but today has no real claim on the Spanish throne and is regarded by many as the reightful king of France, following the senior male line of the Bourbon family.

Luis Alfonso, third candidate of gr.gran-pa Franco ??????? ::) ::) ::) ::)

You are forgetting the minor Archduke Carlos-Pio of Habsburg-Tuscany (younger brother of AD Anton marr. to Ileana of Roumania).
He was also one of Franco's puppets as the son of Infanta Blanca de Borbon of the Carlist branch of the family.

Offline britt.25

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 02:25:29 AM »
I was researching a bit on the Franco family during these days, because I had a lesson on WWII in the university and I was never really aware of the fact that Luis Alfonso is a great-grandson of Franco.

I hope dearest Dmitry, who strongly wants him to become "king" did consider that...?!?

I wonder, if that family connection to Franco never made any problems? In case of certain other dictators it would be impossible only to think that they could make any family connection to royals through marriage etc. Were there never critical voices concerning that marriage of the granddaughter of the Generalissimo and a Bourbon Prince?

I would be very interested in knowing more about that, because it was quite new to me.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 01:15:52 AM by trentk80 »
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Offline Yseult

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 12:50:42 PM »
Well, britt, if you need a little help, here I am...

First questions to answer...

1.-Elder brother of Luis Alfonso: Francisco died as a result of a car crash. The father, duke of Cadiz, was severely injured in the same accident. It was a deep shock for little Louis Alfonso, and things go from bad to worse: just a few months later, he saw how very young Mathilda, one of the daughters of Jean Marie Rossi, at this time husband of Carmen, was died in a boating accident.

2.-About the famous wedding between Carmen and Alfonso duke of Cadiz, I must explain carefully. He was (maybe you know it...) the elder of two sons borne by Emannuella Dampierre, an italian noblewoman, to infante don Jaime. Before his marriage with Emmanuelle, Jaime, deaf-mute, had signed a renounce to his rights to the spanish throne for him and his descendants; he was merely an infant, not the heir of the crown, when his father agreed to a marriage with Emmanuella, who has not royal blood in her veins (her father was a nobleman, without royal ancestors, and her mother was daughter of an italian prince but also of an american heiress). King Alfonso and queen Ena had no doubts about their grandsons Alfonso and Gonzalo: they were not in the line of succesion to the throne. To add more, Jaime and Emmanuella were divorced, she established herself with her lover -a rich bussinessman, I believe...- and he started a scandalous relationship with Carlotta Tiedemann. Young Alfonso and young Gonzalo had not a happy childhood, but her paternal grandmother, Ena, always tried to support them in all the ways.
Jaime was the one who gave his elder son the tittle of Duke of Bourbon. As duke of Bourbon, Alfonso settled in Spain and began a diplomatic career under Franco´s regime. He was, if I´ m not confused, appointed ambassador of Spain to Sweden. A good position, certainly. People began to spread rumours about Franco trying to choose the future king: maybe Juan Carlos of Borbon, son of don Juan and doña María de las Mercedes; maybe Alfonso duke of Bourbon, son of don Jaime with his first wife Emmanuelle or maybe Carlos-Hugo de Borbon-Parma. Carlos-Hugo, by the way, gained some points when was -romantically- married to Irene princess of Holanda: the love story made him more popular. But the great wedding was yet to come: Alfonso began to courtship María del Carmen, older granddaughter, and also favourite granddaughter, of general Franco and his wife Carmen Polo. She was a beautiful girl, with a few sad romances in her background; as she said later, she felt delighted with the idea of a true prince flying around her, but also under certain pressure that came from her family: her grandmother Carmen Polo, her mother Carmen Franco and her father, Villaverde, were more than happy. When the engagedment was announced, all the common people was sure "la Señora" -Carmen Polo- was playing, with the help of Villaverde, the game to ensure her favourite granddaughter would became queen of Spain. Franco gave to Alfonso the tittle of Duke of Cadiz with treatment of His Royal Highness; Carmen Polo was very proud using the tittle Her Royal Highness every time she adressed to her granddaughter.

PD:Sorry for the mistakes...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 01:14:07 AM by trentk80 »

Offline britt.25

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2008, 03:30:16 AM »
Thank you Yseult, you had so much work writing this whole and very interesting text...thank you a lot!! (Mistakes not to say sorry for...I do not see them, I see the content!) This is all very interesting to me and I must confess that I never did much researches on that topic, but now it catched my interest. I must read more about it. If you know some interesting literature (english or German or italian), please leave a comment.
Yes, Cynthia is very nice and similar to her mother, I would say. I wonder, where you found that, because I looked and looked and did not find any photo of her in the photo archives...The car crash of the family must have been terrible, but I hope Luis is now happy with a family.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 03:31:56 AM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline edtash

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 12:27:29 PM »
Sadly that father was not only in the car that killed the young boy, but he was driving quite irresponsibly. The Duke of Cadiz was in fact responsible for the death of his son, which must have been a terrible guilt to live with until his own ghastly death by accidental decapitation on the ski slopes in Colorado.

Eddie

Offline britt.25

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 12:37:22 PM »
Did the relationship of Luis Alfonso to his father change for the worse after that happening?

I'm sorry, but I'm not too known about that.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline edtash

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 12:39:25 PM »
Goodness I do not know. But I wouldn't think so. It was such a horrible tragedy to live through. I would think that the two survivors were just happy to be alive!

Eddie

Offline Yseult

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Re: prospective successors of Franco
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 01:29:09 PM »
Thank you Yseult, you had so much work writing this whole and very interesting text...thank you a lot!! (Mistakes not to say sorry for...I do not see them, I see the content!) This is all very interesting to me and I must confess that I never did much researches on that topic, but now it catched my interest. I must read more about it. If you know some interesting literature (english or German or italian), please leave a comment.
Yes, Cynthia is very nice and similar to her mother, I would say. I wonder, where you found that, because I looked and looked and did not find any photo of her in the photo archives...The car crash of the family must have been terrible, but I hope Luis is now happy with a family.

If you need more info, please, tell me ;) I can find a good bunch of Cynthia pictures: she´s always photographed in the spanish magazines, as her famous mother and her half-brother ;) Don´t know if you can find interesting literature in english, german or spanish...you must learn spanish, britt ;)
Edtash, you´re right: the duke was driving the car. I don´t remember if he was or not driving the car in an irresponsible way...this happened a lot of years ago ;) By the way, I never liked so much the Duke of Cadiz, so I never tried to find info about him... ;)