Author Topic: Help with identification  (Read 34353 times)

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Rani

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Help with identification
« on: November 04, 2006, 02:12:45 PM »
Could anyone help me? In a website there was this photo under the name Princess Thurn and Taxis. But which Princess? Maybe Luise?


Offline Danjel

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 02:06:20 PM »
Can someone tell me who this bridal couple is? I've been told they are from the Castell-Castell family but that is all I know...


Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 05:44:18 PM »
I have a problem that perhaps someone out there can help me (us) with.

In Redmond, Oregon, there was a lady who died in 1966.  Her name was Mrs. Gus Bray.  After she died it was revealed that she was Princess Helen Augusta Victoria Beatrice Bruckner von Gotha, born 1885 at Castle Liebenstein in Thuringen.  Her father was a Prince Oscar was supposedly related to Prince Albert (Q. Victoria's Albert).  She was known as Gertrude in the family, and she had even dined with Nicholas II's family.  She eventually met and married a Swiss-American by the name of Alfred Munz.  They made their way to Redmond where Mr. Munz had a hardware store.  She married Gus Bray in later years after Mr. Munz had died. 

My question is;  I haven't been able to find out any more information about Trude.  It is a legend here in Redmond.  Can someone shed some light on this?  How was she related to Prince Albert?  Was she really a Princess??  Or is this just a fable? 

Thanks for any help offered.

Bonnie

Offline Marc

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 11:19:09 PM »
At that time(around 1885) Castle Liebenstein was part Court Chamber Forestry and the other part was home to several families who were renting the place from the royal Hofdomänenkammer...In 1884 there were 43 persons inhabiting the Castle but nobody of royal birth,just people who were working for them...

There is no such Princess in genealogy sites!

Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 08:19:50 AM »
That's what I was afraid of.  I had tried to do some genealogical research about her online and came up with nothing.  Oh dear!!

Offline Marlene

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 02:03:13 PM »
Totally phony

I have a problem that perhaps someone out there can help me (us) with.

In Redmond, Oregon, there was a lady who died in 1966.  Her name was Mrs. Gus Bray.  After she died it was revealed that she was Princess Helen Augusta Victoria Beatrice Bruckner von Gotha, born 1885 at Castle Liebenstein in Thuringen.  Her father was a Prince Oscar was supposedly related to Prince Albert (Q. Victoria's Albert).  She was known as Gertrude in the family, and she had even dined with Nicholas II's family.  She eventually met and married a Swiss-American by the name of Alfred Munz.  They made their way to Redmond where Mr. Munz had a hardware store.  She married Gus Bray in later years after Mr. Munz had died. 

My question is;  I haven't been able to find out any more information about Trude.  It is a legend here in Redmond.  Can someone shed some light on this?  How was she related to Prince Albert?  Was she really a Princess??  Or is this just a fable? 

Thanks for any help offered.

Bonnie
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 05:01:39 PM »
What will I tell the city of Redmond??

Offline Marc

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 03:35:57 PM »
Maybe the truth about "Princess" Trude...

Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 04:20:21 PM »
I don't know if I SHOULD tell the truth, they may not believe me...

Offline Marlene

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 12:35:55 PM »
Give them thefacts ... no such princess or title or family.

I don't know if I SHOULD tell the truth, they may not believe me...
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 08:08:55 AM »
Haha, this is so stupid and transparent:

After she died it was revealed that she was Princess Helen Augusta Victoria Beatrice Bruckner von Gotha, born 1885 at Castle Liebenstein in Thuringen.
It's as if a member of the British RF was called "Princess NN Bridgeman of England" instead of "NN Mountbatten-Windsor, Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"!

BTW the name might be inspired by Dr. Karl August Friedrich Brückner (1769-1797), sometimes referred to as "Brückner von Gotha" and "Bruckner of Gotha", Court Physician in Gotha and an early expert on the healing of club feet! BTW I see that many Brückners have figured in the history of Gotha: E.g., Johann Georg Brückner was Consistorial Councillor and Supreme Court Preacher of the Duke of Saxe-Gotha in the first half of the 18th century, other Brückners were government secretaries and according to the memoirs of Duke Ernst II a Brückner was also President of the Diet.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 08:27:27 AM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 10:32:20 PM »
What I find interesting about this whole thing is that she insisted on her "identity" being revealed only after her death.  Why do you suppose she wanted that?  Obviously she wasn't a publicity seeker like Anna Anderson...

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 11:23:12 AM »
    Attention  "bonbon823" and Reply # 9:  IMO, I think that this matter has been conclusively settled from the lack of supporting research/facts turned up by very competent people, including yourself. End of story.  I've no idea why this individual wished to invent or perpetuate this delusion/illusion------perhaps to only give herself a sense of importance to compensate for an otherwise dull existence. We've seen examples here on this very board of "assumed royalty" and if you listen very carefully (as "they" all wish to talk), they reveal very important clues, statements, quotes, etc. about their "everyday" life, family, and personal struggles that point so vividly to why they pretend to be another.  For the most part, these people are NOT delusional; rather they flee from time to time to envelope themselves (even momentarily) in a fantasy world as an escape mechanism to fend off the vicissitudes of reality. Once a lie is begun, it's very hard to withdraw without "coming totally clean."  Thus the offender becomes either (1.) more defensive, with presenting a whirlwind of "fluff facts" gathered from elsewhere (usually they are voracious readers of the said subject) , or (2.) retreats into "regal" silence, thereby adding more "mystery."  Strangely enough, #2. can be quite effective to some "followers" of the person/s in question!  "He/she acted like a "true prince/princess and never stooped to enter an argument over his/her origins."  
    Two questions:  Does this woman in question have any descendants who can offer anything in "proof"?  And importantly, WHY, "bonbon823", are you specifically, placed in the position of needing to tell "the city of Redmond" anything?  (Are you a relative, reporter, etc.?)  Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 11:39:20 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 03:55:20 PM »
What I find interesting about this whole thing is that she insisted on her "identity" being revealed only after her death.  Why do you suppose she wanted that?

Did this come as a total "surprise" after her death or had she given some "hints"? In the latter case I am most likely to see it as attention seeking combined with playing a practical joke from beyond the grave, but in the former case, although I too think there is a 99 % chance it was some more or less harmless psychological disturbance, I think there might be the very remote possibility that she for example was an illegitimate scion of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Wasn't for example Prince Albert's brother Duke Ernst II rumoured to have been not very faithful to his wife? Her "title" was evidently invented and not genuine, but perhaps she meant to indicate a belief in illegitimate descent from a ducal liaison with a Brückner / Bruckner? Perhaps she was just an illegitimate scion of the prominent civil servant Brückner family of Gotha (shipped off to America because of the scandal), didn't know the details and the name Gotha, which because of both the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and the Almanach de Gotha was the very incarnation of royalty back then, led her to believe she was related to the ducal dynasty?

Offline bonbon823

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Re: Help with identification
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 05:08:04 PM »
Well, "A.P", for your information I am the secretary of the Greater Redmond Historical Society and a volunteer at the local museum.  As such, I heard of the story from a fellow volunteer and long-time Redmond resident.  Since it is a local legend, I just wanted to know if it was true.  There is no need to get snippy about my interest in the subject; it no business of yours in any case.  And as you said, case closed.