Author Topic: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze  (Read 84627 times)

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Offline wox24

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2009, 05:54:37 AM »
Thank you Nena, Shandy and others.. About new thread (indentification, questions/answers) - good idea. If someone will open it, I would join it with a big pleasure.

Shandy and Kalafrana, you both are a little bit wrong and are confusing all our dear forum members. He was not just an "ordinary soldier". He was an a officer (not lower than a Lieutenant, according to the photo) and served in the Guard's, and moreover in His Majesty (that means that Nicholas could personally be familiar with the officers of his regiment, including Kiknadze) 3rd Rifle Regiment (Saint Petersburg dislocation). Only nobility and aristocracy at that time could serve in the Guard, especially in His Majesty's Regiment. So, it means that Tatiana's favourite was a very intelligent, educated and brave officer of one of the best Infantry and Rifle Regiments of the Russian Empire with a great 200-years History. As I know, Russia at that time had only a dozen of His Majesty's (named by the Nicholas II and patronized by him) regiments in all the Armed Forces (including Cavalry, Infantry, etc.).

 I also think, that Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna were both well aware of their daughters flirtations. That's why Nicholas II appointed Demenkov (earlier he was a Naval officer) in His Majesty's Infantry United Regiment, closer to Maria (good father!). And especially that's why Alexandra Feodorovna allowed Kiknadze to stay in the Tsarskoe Selo hospital as a nurse and she (good mother!) sometimes was gathering together Demenkov (Maria), Kiknadze (Tatiana), Shah-Bagov (Olga) in a hospital. So, don't worry, careful parents had a total control of all the situation. And finally, they would not allowed to their girls untested and unknown men.

Sarah, Пожалуйста. Все только для тебя!

Thanks for more informations and I think you are absolutely right. ;)

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2009, 07:56:45 AM »
You are welcome Wox24 and Shandy,

P.S. May you please post the 4th photo in whole?

Here it is Shandy, in a full resolution.
As I know this photo is from one of the Vyrubova albums.


By the way here is another photo with Kiknadze in military uniform (also from Vyrubova album)
He looks rather handsome in this beautiful military uniform.


P.S. I also terribly sorry, that I called him a Lieutenant.
Of course he was not a Lieutenant, he couldn't be him, because Lieutenant in
Imperial Russia was a Naval rank. I was covered that day with a Naval History,
and accidentally called him a Lieutenant. Likely he was (photo has a very bad quality)
something like a Poruchik (Guard's equivalent to Lieutenant) or Sub-Poruchik.

"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline wox24

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2009, 03:43:46 PM »
Nicola, any admirer of Tsar daughter is not safe before you.  :D You find all of them.  ;)

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2009, 09:14:53 PM »
I've been looking for a very long time about any information concerning Mr Vladimir Kiknadze.
Now I've found something! Thanks to good people in Russia who found it for me for FREE in the Russian Military State Archive. God bless them.

Here it is.

His full name was Vladimir Ivanovich Kiknadze. Nationality Georgian. Rank Sub-Poruchik (European equivalent of Sub-Lieutenant).
He fought in the First World War. Regiment - His Majesty's Nicholas II 3rd Guard's Rifle Regiment. Regiment dislocation - Saint Petersburg. He was awarded during the War in 1916 (On July 18) with St. George Gold Sabre!! (equivalent to Order of St. George).

And this not all. He probably had a brother. Evgeniy Ivanovich Kiknadze, who served in the same Regiment. Rank - Captain.
His brave brother was awarded with the Order of St. George.

This is good news. But I also have a rather bad news;((
Unfortunately, but all my friends and me myself, had nothing found about his probably life in all sources after Revolution.
That means that likely he disappeared in an endless First World War......

R.I.P.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 09:17:29 PM by Nicolá De Valerón »
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2009, 10:56:21 AM »
Amazing photos!!! Thanks for post them!! ;-)

Offline wox24

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2010, 02:18:23 PM »
Is not it Vladimir Kiknadze (on the right)?



the photo is from www.otma.blog.cz, Allys Czech site.

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2010, 03:28:20 PM »
Yes, it's Kiknadze on this photo. But only God can give you 100% guarantee. At least according to the information that I have, I can confirm this. Epaulets, typical Georgian-Russian features, simultaneously being an officer and served as a nurse. However to be honest with you, from the time that I've posted those photos and now, time had passed, and I have a little and minor suspicions about those photos. (for example time when the photos were taken).

Anyway, I can hardly imagine another officer/nurse with the His Majesty's Guard's epaulets and typical Caucasian features in the Tsarskoe Selo hospital in 1914-1916 during the War time. Later, from October 1916 till 1917 he took part in the First World War.

There are also a plenty of his pics in the lazaret. In different albums. Look carefully, and you will find another big amount of his photos.
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2010, 07:17:59 PM »
Although this photo has already been posted several times on different threads, I decided to post it here in it's native thread. Many thanks to our dear blessOTMA for this excellent finding.

Tatiana Nicholaievna as a Sister of Mercy and Vladimir Ivanovich Kiknadze, Sub-Poruchik of the 3rd of HIM Guard's Rifle Regiment. Tsarskoe Selo lazaret. 1915.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 07:26:34 PM by Nicolá De Valerón »
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2010, 08:36:42 PM »
....and thank you Nicolá  for making the screen shot  from the lionk and all the great information!

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline matushka

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2010, 06:09:29 AM »
Nicola, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your work, I was especially happy to read information from Russian military archive! That is the work I dreamed to do... and have never done! Very interesting and informative. I wanted to ask you how did you came to the idea that this nurse-officer from Vyrubova's album was Kiknadze. I ask it becauseof the chronology of events. When was he a nurse? In some pictures we see Vyrubova. But did she came back to her nurse's work after her accident of the 2/01/1915? Kiknadze came to lazaret later as far as I understood, that is the reason why I have some suspicion about this identification and would like to have it verified. Can you help me? Sorry, all, for my english, I have not written in english for about a year!

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2010, 11:00:21 AM »
You are very welcome! Glad to have you here again;).

As to the photos I previously posted on this thread with the man in military uniform and nurse uniform, this is not Vladimir Kiknadze. I've already wrote it on rare pictures thread. The idea itself about that man came to me suddenly and all the things were surprisingly suited to each other. Only later I discovered in Russian State Mil. Archive (not personally, but with the help of good people) that Vladimir Kiknadze was a Sub-Poruchik, which is doesn't compared to that man on the photo appearance, that was enough. And other things that you've mentioned (time of the photos and so on) also are not quite reliable. I've been thinking about of posting a refutation, because I commonly like make all the things clearly and perfectly, but I didn't have a real Kiknadze photo to do it. Now we have it. Btw, about that man I have some thoughts, as I remember I've posted before that it could be his brother Evgeny Ivanovich Kiknadze, who also served at the same Regiment with the rank of Captain and occasionally in lazaret. But this is only good but unproved version.
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline Grand Duchess Valeria

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2010, 12:05:44 PM »
I have red about Demenkov, that he had lived in Paris after revolution and never married. It was written in a thread here with other information about him.
And when he shall die, // Take him and cut him out in little starres, // And he will make the Face of heaven so fine, // That all the world will be in Love with night, // And pay no worship to the Garish Sun.

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2010, 03:12:40 PM »
Two excerpts about both Kiknadze from the list of 3rd Rifle of HIM Regiment Officers, who were awarded with an Order of St. George or St. George Sabre as an equivalent, during the WWI.

Vladimir Ivanovich Kiknadze:
- "Sub Poruchik Vladimir Kiknadze is awarded with the St. George Sabre for his actions at August 30, 1915, during the battle at Meyshagola, while temporarily commanding the Company, being surrounded by superior enemy forces and having a great losses from artillery and rifle fire, fought his way with bayonets, threw back the enemy and took up a position in the rear, ensuring the withdrawal of our Batteries. Severely wounded, remained in the ranks until lost consciousness." (Officially awarded only at July 18, 1916.)

Evgeny Ivanovich Kiknadze:
- "Captain Evgeny Kiknadze is awarded with an Order of St. George of the 4th degree, for his actions in the battle of July 15 near the village Shurin, while commanding the 4th Company of the 3rd of HIM Regiment with the rank of Stabs Captain, being under the strongest enemy fire, as a head of it's Company rushed into attack, crossed the impassable swamp and several rows of barbed wire in a one mile wide, captured a strongly fortified enemy position with a bayonet stab and grabbed two working machineguns." (Officially awarded only on April 19, 1917.)


*Both excerpts are translated from Russian and taken from the "Battle Chronicle of the 3rd Rifle of HIM Regiment" by Glinsky and Yesaulov. 1935.
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline Antonina

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2010, 09:20:16 AM »
I just can't stop :)
Unlikely, but doesn't this man talking with Olga look like Kiknadze?
...Столетья поплывут из темноты.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Tatiana and Vladimir Kiknadze
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2010, 10:02:23 AM »
I believe this genleman is darker than Kiknadze was.
That looks like knitting in Olga's hands as well as perhaps photos they are laughing over...but as Nicolá points out, only God can say 100%

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna