Author Topic: Was Maria sad?  (Read 17485 times)

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Offline matushka

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2007, 03:52:49 PM »
Maria's remark remains me an Olga's remark reported in 1916 by Valentina Chebotareva. "Olga Nicholaevna's dreams about happiness: to marry, have a lot of children, live in the province. No obligations, nothing official". Let us also remember letters to their family in the Crimea where they said they are satisfied with their lige in Tobolsk (was that to tranquilize relatives? To tranquilize the censure?) We should add that they had already the habit to be not so free as it seems to be. Conversations were listened (see Vyroubova, Chebotareva), security's agents were always by there steps, roads where they drive, church where they go all was prepared, all around soldiers or agents.
But they could allow them a lot. After the Revolution, very few. I am sure the simple fact they could not go outside was terribly difficult for all. They had all an incredible self-control and a real christian hope on God and it is probably what help them to find something good in this Tobolsk's life.

Offline Tsarina_Liz

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2007, 04:58:00 PM »
Yes, when they were still in power the IF travelled and went to parties and ballets, etc.  But that does not mean the girls were free.  They were never left alone, and were considerably stifled to the extent they were socially stunted (there are descriptions of them as teens acting like little children, etc.)  Life in Tobolsk, in close quarters with parents and heavily reliant on a schedule would not have been so different. 

This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere on the forum.  Look especially close at the Olga thread.  Also, King and Wilson give an accurate assessment of the cloistered life of OTMAA in "Fate of the Romanovs" in their initial chapters.   
Hindsight is 20/20.  When the myopic haze of of the present is lifted by the march of time we see it clearly as the past.  Sociology, psychology, anthropology.  They are all means of understanding that which came before.  History cannot stand alone.

Offline Raegan

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2007, 05:27:46 PM »
Yes, when they were still in power the IF travelled and went to parties and ballets, etc.  But that does not mean the girls were free.  They were never left alone, and were considerably stifled to the extent they were socially stunted (there are descriptions of them as teens acting like little children, etc.)

What do you mean "they were never left alone?" Do you think they would have been allowed to roam the streets of St. Petersburg unattended? Can you elaborate please? And if I remember correctly, there was only one description of them speaking like children, and it was never quite clear what was meant by that statement. There was a thread on this very subject. Going by their letters, diaries, and the way they handled themselves during the war, I don't believe they behaved like children to the extend some make it out to be.

Life in Tobolsk, in close quarters with parents and heavily reliant on a schedule would not have been so different.

Okay, let me get this straight, you are saying that their life of travel, social events, etc was not much different than being held against their will in Tobolsk? 

This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere on the forum.  Look especially close at the Olga thread.  Also, King and Wilson give an accurate assessment of the cloistered life of OTMAA in "Fate of the Romanovs" in their initial chapters.   

I tend to go by letters, diaries and other written work before I do a biography since it is someone else's opinion and not always fact. Oh, and I did take part in the Olga threads, take a close look at the last couple of pages in the "Feel Sorry for Olga" thread. I know that from my own personal research in the archives (plus already published work such as A Lifelong Passion) I found OTMA to be four healthy, happy young girls who enjoyed the world they were born into.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 05:54:19 PM by Raegan »

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2007, 09:37:01 AM »
Well, whatever the truth of this issue, it seems Marie would not have been the type to be bothered too much about this kind of life, as much as some other members of her family. In addition, it seems that their imprisonment in Tobolsk was not as as bad as later. When they were free, they still were not, that's a good point. Yet, in in imprisonment, it seems they were even less free, but for Marie, I would tend to believe that was less of an issue than you might think. Of course, part of how they regarded these days had to fit in with how they regarded their future.

Offline Raegan

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 10:21:15 AM »
Well, whatever the truth of this issue, it seems Marie would not have been the type to be bothered too much about this kind of life, as much as some other members of her family. In addition, it seems that their imprisonment in Tobolsk was not as as bad as later.

That is true. It is sad when one thinks of the letter Maria penned to her siblings after she had arrived in Ekaterinburg. She mentioned how life in their new prison was dreadful, and how she missed the "quiet" life in Tobolsk. I don't have my notes or books on me at the moment, but I believe this letter is in A Lifelong Passion.

When they were free, they still were not, that's a good point. Yet, in in imprisonment, it seems they were even less free, but for Marie, I would tend to believe that was less of an issue than you might think. Of course, part of how they regarded these days had to fit in with how they regarded their future.

Prior to the revolution, they were not "free" in the sense that they could go wherever they wanted whenever they wanted. That is just common sense given their positions. I suppose you can compare it to the children of a president. But it is absurd to compare their world before the abdication to imprisonment. There is no comparison. Imagine attending events, traveling to places you loved and actually having a life and then you are forced into imprisonment and the world you had known all your life no longer exist. I believe that would come as a great shock to anyone.


Offline imperial angel

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 10:34:27 AM »
Indeed, it was a contrast. I think that Marie's remark should be seen in light of what she knew of their past imprisonment in the Alexander palace, and also in light of what she might have seen as their future, which she most likely didn't have much sense of, or speculate about it. Yet, she was the most accepting of the sisters perhaps, as she had such a unassuming personality. But, I think the remark really should be taken in context.

Offline Jarian

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2007, 10:48:28 AM »
Well they were an uneven group usually someone would be left out, Mostly Olga and Tatiana were together and Anastasia was on and off with Maria and Alexei probably and knowing the attitude of Anastasia she was quiet bossy

Bob_the_builder

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2007, 06:51:33 PM »
I always thought that Marie seemed like the happiest child, second to Anastasia. Olga is the one seemed sad to me.

Offline XJaseyRaeX

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2007, 08:58:26 PM »
its possible that Maria could have suffered from mild depression from time to time...it happens to everyone...
at one point in their lives...also maria seemed different from her sisters....i mean to me it always seemed she longed for a simple life....away from the pomp and splendor...i can also see how her crushes on men that weren't fit for her would make her sad... ::)


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Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2007, 09:56:10 PM »
I think that Mariya was not the only one to long for a simpler life; think about Olga, and her crushes on Voronov, and Chakh-Bagov...I don't know for sure if Chakh-Bagov loved her, but Voronov did, so you can imagine how sad both have been. By the way, did Mariya spoke of her crushes somewhere?

Mariya's goal in life had nothing to do at all with royalty; I strongly suspect she would've done like her aunt Olga Alexandrovna; marrying a commoner, and raise a family. Perhaps it would've been easier for her, since she was the third daughter...

But having goals impossible to fulfill (even temporarily) has a demoralizing effect on everyone! Imagine in Mariya's situation!

Bob_the_builder

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2007, 01:06:41 AM »
its possible that Maria could have suffered from mild depression from time to time...it happens to everyone...
at one point in their lives...also maria seemed different from her sisters....i mean to me it always seemed she longed for a simple life....away from the pomp and splendor...i can also see how her crushes on men that weren't fit for her would make her sad... ::)
I think you are on to something here. Maria seemed to like to converse with the solider type instead of those within her rank.
I think she would have married a commoner just like Olga Alexandrovna did as dissappointing as it would have been to her parents.
But I don't think she would have been happy with Lord Mountbatten who obviously liked her, and kept a picture of her near his bedside until he died in 1977. :o :-\ :'(

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2007, 06:42:25 PM »
Hmmm. I think that none of the girls was "sad" or "depressed". They could be melancholic time to time, as all of us are. Nobody is perfectly happy the 100% of her/his life. Not even a royal girl, born in the middle of luxury in one of the most powerful empires of the world.

I think that Olga was sensitive, a musical soul. She was interested in other subjects (like politics) that her sister did not. But this doesn't mean she was "sad" and that e must feel sorry for her. I DO feel sorry for her when she went prisonner to Tobolsk and then to Ekaterinburg. I feel sorry for her when she was murdered. But I think her life, until this moment, was pretty good. ;)

As for Maria...The poor little one could have feel that she was not loved, as a lot of girls and boys could think it. When I was a girl I used to think that my parents wouldn't love me when they scolded me. I think I read a letter where Alix wrote to Maria that the fact she solded her wouldn't mean she doesn't love her, but the opposite: she scolded her BECAUSE she loved her. Penny Wilson and Greg King understod this otherwise, but I do not think that we must pay too much attention to this little fact. All boys and girls uses to think at least once in their lifes that they are not loved for they parents scolds them...

In fact, Maria seems to have been a pretty happy girl, who dreamed about a simply life sourrounded by a good , caring husband and some beatiful, good children of her own.

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TheAce1918

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2007, 09:38:45 PM »
IMO, Marie was the happiest of the Romanov children.  Judging by her diary entries, and other accounts, she just seems like the most optimistic and well rounded of the imperial children. 
The facts are right...not everyone is happy all the time, but as far as that goes, Marie was by all means one of the happiest and one who was more eased on life.

Offline XJaseyRaeX

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2007, 07:30:33 AM »
i guess we will never know for sure because she is no around to tell us how she in fact felt....some people can be very happy on the outside but complete emotional wrecks on the inside....i know quite a few people like that
i guess we can keep guessing how a person feels but no one knows what another person truely thinks ::)


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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Was Maria sad?
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2007, 11:48:14 PM »
Well, judging by her diaries and especially her letters she was a happy young lady.