Author Topic: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII  (Read 9521 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brent (Australia)

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« on: January 31, 2007, 01:00:52 AM »
What titles,rank,stlye and precedence did Henry's former wives have once the divorce "went through" and after his death ( for Katherine Parr). Many thanks

Offline Kimberly

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Loyaulte me lie
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 02:49:15 AM »
Katherine of Aragon - proclamation issued in July 1533 requiring that she be known as Princess Dowager of Wales (by virtue of her marriage to Arthur).
Anne Boleyn's marriage was annulled 16th/17th May 1536 so she went to the scaffold as Lady Marquess of Pembroke.
Anne of Cleves became a financially well-endowed divorcee and the King's honorary "sister". As such, she would take precedence over most of the ladies in the land.
Kate Parr became Queen Dowager on Henry's death.
Member of the Richard III Society

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6570
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 10:02:17 AM »
Kim is absolutely right. ;) Anne of Cleves was styled 'My Lady Anne of Cleves' I think and signed herself 'Anne, daughter of Cleves'. Before her marriage, by the by, Katherine Parr was Lady Latimer by virtue of her second marriage.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Zanthia

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • "She always made other women look common"
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 02:35:18 AM »
What about Catherine Howard? Did'nt she had any titels beside the one as Queen?
Of Alix: "I was raised in an age of beautiful women, and the two most beautiful was the Empress Elisabeth of Austria and my own mother"  George V

"We've invited all the beautiful women we know, but the Princess of Wales in the most beautiful of them all"  Bertie

Offline Kimberly

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Loyaulte me lie
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 04:20:01 AM »
She was just Maid in Waiting I think. (Or Lady in Waiting).
Her cousin Anne Boleyn was elevated as Marquess of Pembroke- a title she held in her own right, Catherine was given no such elevation.
Member of the Richard III Society

Offline umigon

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
    • My Family Tree
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 06:58:45 AM »

And, of course, Catherine of Aragon was a Spanish Infanta!
Gonzalo Velasco Berenguer

My Family Tree: www.tribalpages.com/tribes?userid=umigon

Royal Families: www.tribalpages.com/tribes?userid=gondan

Offline Zanthia

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • "She always made other women look common"
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 04:45:11 AM »
Yeah, I guess old Hal wanted to see if it would last this time, before he'd shower his new bride with titels and property. :)
Of Alix: "I was raised in an age of beautiful women, and the two most beautiful was the Empress Elisabeth of Austria and my own mother"  George V

"We've invited all the beautiful women we know, but the Princess of Wales in the most beautiful of them all"  Bertie

Offline Zanthia

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • "She always made other women look common"
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 10:20:05 AM »
BTW, I've been wondering about a thing: I've saw a paper Anne Boleyn had signed, and it said: "Anne the queenie", and in a bio of Edward and Alexandra there is an anecdote of how an old man once saluted them with "Three cheers for King Henry VI and his queenie" (He must have been very old  :D), but it's the word "queenie" I want to ask about. Is it an old word for queen, that was replaced later with the word we know today, or is it a pet name for queen? Anybody who can tell me?
Of Alix: "I was raised in an age of beautiful women, and the two most beautiful was the Empress Elisabeth of Austria and my own mother"  George V

"We've invited all the beautiful women we know, but the Princess of Wales in the most beautiful of them all"  Bertie

Offline Kimberly

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Loyaulte me lie
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 10:41:29 AM »
I think it is just different ways of spelling a particular word ...Queen, Quene,Queene etc. Take a look at the original spelling of Anne Boleyn's motto for instance;
"The Moost Happi".
Member of the Richard III Society

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2007, 03:44:22 PM »
I've saw a paper Anne Boleyn had signed, and it said: "Anne the queenie

Are you sure it didn't say "queene", not "queenie"?

Offline James1941

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2007, 05:31:47 PM »
There is some discussion on just how Boleyn is spelled also.

Offline jehan

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2007, 01:17:09 AM »
BTW, I've been wondering about a thing: I've saw a paper Anne Boleyn had signed, and it said: "Anne the queenie", and in a bio of Edward and Alexandra there is an anecdote of how an old man once saluted them with "Three cheers for King Henry VI and his queenie" (He must have been very old  :D), but it's the word "queenie" I want to ask about. Is it an old word for queen, that was replaced later with the word we know today, or is it a pet name for queen? Anybody who can tell me?

It's possibly just a variation of the spelling of "Queen", or bad handwriting.  Spelling was fluid at the time.

Another slant could be put on this, however, depending on the motivations of the man.  the world "queane" in Tudor times also meant prostitute, and as the legality of Henry's second marriage was questioned, it could have been a veiled insult.  Anne B was not well regarded by all, remember!  But that's just a guess on my part- I haven't seen the original documents.
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in. 
(leonard Cohen)

Offline Zanthia

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • "She always made other women look common"
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2007, 02:16:17 AM »
It's possibly just a variation of the spelling of "Queen", or bad handwriting.  Spelling was fluid at the time.

Another slant could be put on this, however, depending on the motivations of the man.  the world "queane" in Tudor times also meant prostitute, and as the legality of Henry's second marriage was questioned, it could have been a veiled insult.  Anne B was not well regarded by all, remember!  But that's just a guess on my part- I haven't seen the original documents.
[/quote]

That makes sense. After all, spelling is still somewhat fluid today, at least in Denmark. (Not even the journalists can spell, and they make a living from writing!) Don't know how the spelling skills looks in the rest of the world.

I did'nt know it could mean prostitute as well. It's very possible that people hid their insults behind a word with a double meaning.


And just a little thought of the "trial" against Anne: One can always wonder how she could be guilty in being unfaithful to Henry, if their marriage wasn't and never had been valid ::)
Of Alix: "I was raised in an age of beautiful women, and the two most beautiful was the Empress Elisabeth of Austria and my own mother"  George V

"We've invited all the beautiful women we know, but the Princess of Wales in the most beautiful of them all"  Bertie

Offline bell_the_cat

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1678
  • I am he, who will bell the cat
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2007, 05:13:00 PM »
The whole of London agreed that the marriage of Anne and Henry was valid. Henry himself implied this in the Act of Succession in 1544, and in his will. England supported this view in 1553 and again in 1558.

The evidence for Anne's infidelity is very flimsy, unless you believe that she was a witch and capable of incest with her own brother.....
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline jehan

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
    • View Profile
Re: Titles,rank and style of former wives of Henry VIII
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2007, 10:19:21 PM »
The whole of London agreed that the marriage of Anne and Henry was valid. Henry himself implied this in the Act of Succession in 1544, and in his will. England supported this view in 1553 and again in 1558.

The evidence for Anne's infidelity is very flimsy, unless you believe that she was a witch and capable of incest with her own brother.....

I don't believe for a minute in Anne's infidelity.

I do know, however, that there was not universal support for Henry and Anne's marriage.  In London or elsewhere. Catherine had a lot of support from many quarters right up until her death.  There was a large section of the population who did not believe Henry had any right to dissolve his first marriage and declare himself head of the church in England. (Thomas More, for one), and were willing to die for it.  There are many contemporary anecdotes of Anne receiving a less than welcoming reception when she appeared in public, including insults being shouted at her.  However history played out, and whether or not the marriage was in fact valid, at the time there many who BELIEVED that Catherine was the true Queen of England, and Anne merely a "queane".

Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in. 
(leonard Cohen)